158 replies to this topic

[Foxfire]

It would bring much more parody to the weight classes and make it less likely people will fiend expensive equipment if they had to pay a significant chunk of money each time they lost it.

Cost is what made the medium the workhorse of armies in the Battletech universe.. and the lack of costs is what makes this game armor heavy.

Lets face it.. the PPC and gauss need to be useful for people to use it.. but it isn't punishing enough for people who use them which is why you see people stocking up on PPC's and guass. These things(like XL engines) are supposed to be prohibitively expensive to use which is why they were reserved for elite groups.

Make them so again.

The PPC and guass should be powerful... just make it a real tradeoff to use them.

[GODzillaGSPB]

The problem with this would be that those people who (exaggeration) play 24/7 wouldn't give a rat's a...^^

[FupDup]

Players will always use loadouts that are more likely to make them win. Making those loadouts cost more does nothing to change the fact that they will still win more often.

[DarkJaguar]

This is a very small part of the problem. Canon-wise, sure Gauss and PPCs are expensive, but that should have very little to do as far as balancing them goes. To solve the balance issues, you need to evaluate the disease, not treat the symptoms. I feel that I have done just that in this thread.

http://mwomercs.com/...x-balance/]this

Edited by DarkJaguar, 07 July 2013 - 11:26 AM.

[superbob]

Not while there is nothing else to do in MWO than destroy other mechs. Maybe with community warfare we will get missions that would justify taking the lightest/cheapest mechs that can do the job, instead of the very best you have in your garage.

With the current model this would only lead to increase of capwarrior online and make 4mans profit more and PUGs get almost nothing for lost matches.

[Kibble]

PGI is gonna do what PGI wants. It's been shown time and time again. I love developers that do their own things basied on their vision but when their vision is crap then the outcome is crap.

I would love to see R&R come back.

Edited by Kibble, 07 July 2013 - 11:28 AM.

[ArcDemon]

R&R was removed because too many people tried to exploit it for farming (at the expense of their team), something which people are still trying to find ways of doing and PGI has to keep making changes to counter.

The exploit back in the day was that since the torso and 75% ammo where supplied for free, you would make a mech that operated on just that and never pay for R&R. This was bad for the rest of the team that had to drop with your pathetic mech and eventually R&R was just removed.

I suspect R&R will reappear in a new form with community warfare, but will only impact organized groups/mercenary companies and maybe factions (maybe you'll get less faction XP the more you drain the house's funds for the 'free' R&R). They could bring back R&R for all matches right now, but I think they would have to change it to a requirement - you could not take a mech back into battle until you have repaired and reloaded it, and if you don't have enough money because you are a cadet who just bought the mech, you'll have to go back to trial mechs to earn enough to fix it.

[Waking One]

with repair and rearm it would be even more important to use the highest alpha most powerful build possible to kill people as much as possible

would have the opposite effect of what you hope for

[Foxfire]

Kibble, on 07 July 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

PGI is gonna do what PGI wants. It's been shown time and time again. I love developers that do their own things basied on their vision but when their vision is crap then the outcome is crap.

I would love to see R&R come back.

Eh.. their vision isn't bad. It is their implementation and lack of persuit of their vision that I don't like.

[Purlana]

It would make PPC / Gauss boats even better. Who do you think R&R really hurts? That's right, the brawlers... If you get cored outright you have a small repair bill, but if you try to torso twist and survive for as long as possible your bill gets larger. Also SRM and LRM ammo was very expensive. Using SRM currently would be like firing C-bills at the enemy.

Edited by Purlana, 07 July 2013 - 11:42 AM.

[WolvesX]

no.

[Inkarnus]

you can adapt RandR easyly all boating PPC make PPC more expensive
all play only Assaults increase Assault repair cost
and so on
thats why RandR is a good method for basic problems

[Locan Ravok]

R&R was discarded because there was no way it would not be exploited, and that made balancing the economy hell.

[Percimes]

No.

Having to play trial mechs over and over so I could pay for the repair and ammo for a raven as I learned to play was awful enough. Having people hide and shotdown when the outcome of a match was no longer in the favor of their team was rather frustrating for the rest of said team too.

And people launching with a trial and quitting the game to launch with another trial and another and another to farm cash was putting a lot of disconnect...

Didn't work, they removed it, majority of people seems happy with this.

[Kibble]

R&R could have been fixed if they didn't add the free repair. If your mech was destroyed you shouldn't be able to use it until you repair it FULLY

If I remember correctly tiral mechs got little to nothing when it came to rewards. Also you no longer get rewards if you dc right?

Edited by Kibble, 07 July 2013 - 11:59 AM.

[Purlana]

I don't think anyone enjoyed R&R. Also you would need to bump rewards per match by 2x or higher in order to offset R&R. Even then energy builds would probably benefit the most.

Edited by Purlana, 07 July 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

PPCs don't have high maintainance cost.

R&R affects the most effective builds the least, because the most effective builds don't require repairs - they kill the other guys.

ANd I am not seeing how the PPC meta could be improved by having a bunch of trial mech suicide farmers and AFKers.

You only get people that don't have those PPC boats yet that die constantly and barely make even, and those that have the PPC mechs and don't die all the time.

Might be interesting to see in what manner Elo would fail, too, if R&R would actually work the way people like it to work - forcing people to not run the fun builds, but also occassionally cheap builds. One day you sit in your PPC mech, win left & right, your Elo rises, then it has gotten too expensive, and you sit in a grinder mech, still with that high ELo, and are constantly beat up.

Yeah, that sounds like a real fun game you have in mind there. Not.

[Corvus Antaka]

I doubt it. rich players will still take whatever they want.

[stjobe]

Purlana, on 07 July 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

I don't think anyone enjoyed R&R.

A lot of people enjoyed R&R, including me.

It wasn't very thought-through, though, so it needed to be adjusted. Refined, rebalanced, tuned so as to not encourage griefing or exploiting.

PGI took the easy way out and just removed it.

[MustrumRidcully]

stjobe, on 07 July 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

A lot of people enjoyed R&R, including me.

It wasn't very thought-through, though, so it needed to be adjusted. Refined, rebalanced, tuned so as to not encourage griefing or exploiting.

PGI took the easy way out and just removed it.

stjobe, on 07 July 2013 - 12:14 PM, said:

A lot of people enjoyed R&R, including me.

It wasn't very thought-through, though, so it needed to be adjusted. Refined, rebalanced, tuned so as to not encourage griefing or exploiting.

PGI took the easy way out and just removed it.

Since you've been proven to be one of the smarter posters (IMO at least) - feel free to come up with a non-exploitable and non-griefing system. Cover problems like new players without any money yet, and people going bankrupt.

Though I think it's kinda the type of idea I dislike about mech customization limitations - it it stops me from making the mechs I would like to play, or force me to leave it in the garage, I am not sure the game has the same appeal. Trying out new builds whenever I want has a big appeal to me.