132 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

PGI won't give you your C-Bills and XP back.

Best thing they'll come up with will be a Seismic-jammer module, for a low low price of 15 000 GXP and 6 million C-bills.

[Galenit]

I find this formluar matching for the seismic sensor range: tons x throttle x0,04m

This let you see a full throttle mech with
20 tons at 80m
40 tons at 160m
65 tons at 260m
80tons at 320m
100 tons at 400m

An Atlas can go at 60% throttle to reach srm range, he will be seen at 260m on the seismic sensor. The lights and mediums all can go at full throttle into srm range.

Impact after hopping down from a cliff or jj-use should give a stronger onetime impact pulse on the seismic sensor.

Edited by Galenit, 11 July 2013 - 01:25 AM.

[Shiro Matsumoto]

I wrote down my concerns here on the day we heard the first time from the Seismic module

http://mwomercs.com/...07#entry2321307


It made Commando- Hit-Run-Play completely useless... i since then sold my 3 Commandos... i keel my spider though, for now.

Edited by John McFianna, 11 July 2013 - 01:26 AM.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

Kmieciu, on 10 July 2013 - 11:46 PM, said:

PGI won't give you your C-Bills and XP back.

Best thing they'll come up with will be a Seismic-jammer module, for a low low price of 15 000 GXP and 6 million C-bills.

Also called "the slippers module", which I can't help but picturing like this.




Problem is, I think that's really what they are gonna do. Come up with a new money sink wich will be nothing else but mandatory soft fuzzy pink bunny slippers for your 'mech as an anti cheat measure against the stupid legal wallhack they felt was a good idea to patch into the game to help the long range meta which was underrated and barely existent (right?).

Please, surprise me PGI. I beg you.

Edited by Lefteye, 11 July 2013 - 01:53 AM.

[Sir Wulfrick]

This is a difficult topic on which to comment for me. Why? I'm an Atlas pilot. Have been since around 1987. Started playing an Atlas on the day I downloaded the closed beta and have been playing an Atlas - and only an Atlas - ever since. Not many Atlas drivers out there with more experience of the old girl.

I do use the seismic sensor fairly regularly in my AS7-D, AS7-D-DC but only occasionally in my -RS. The -K has been gathering dust in the hanger since the day I mastered it as compared to the other variants it's substantially subb-par. I think the seismic sensor has some utility as it allows me as an assault pilot to become aware of mechs that I can't physically see and don't register on radar. There are maps, frozen city and forest colony come to mind, where this has legitimate tactical uses.

I do think that light mechs should feature a heavily reduced seismic signature, though I'd be against them featuring no signature at all. In the heat of combat it would be very easy to miss a very slight signature amongst the general chaos of battle but on the rare occasion that I'm sat still intently looking at the battle map and radar returns I think it would be legitimate for even light mechs, at least those travelling at reasonable speed, to be noticed at some range.

It used to be the case that light mechs could sneak right up behind me. Fair enough, if my situational awareness is that bad then I deserve to take a hit to the rear armour. I feel that sneaking around can and must be a legitimate tactic for light mechs.

How should the seismic sensor work? I can't say that I have the definitive answer and I won't pretend to know how it affects light mech pilots, but I'd imagine that the size of the signal provided by a mech should be directly proportional to the mass of the mech and proportionate but more weakly so to its' speed.

[Cybermech]

The one thing that has "ruined" the experience for me is,
the fact new guys have to grind for it, even the first module.
It is such a game changer and for the basic module to be kept out of reach for the new guys is not something I like.

Most people already had the cash and gxp to get the advanced version.
All I did was log on and click a few buttons.
The amount of work new players will have to do to be somewhat effective is crazy.

[LordDante]

seismic for Scouts only it even would promote templay !! " ive got multiple blips C9/5"... "this is Lance leader we turn to engage"

[Leafia Barrett]

No wonder trying to flank in my Spider is so worthless now.

[Blackfoot]

The problem I have with seismic is that it extends for almost half your visible range.

Thats ALOT.

It needs to be toned back to maybe 150-200m and scaled even less for lighter chassis.

[Captain Stiffy]

Oh yes please, let's nerf something else hell let's nerf the whole damn game because some whiner kid is bad.

They will.

[DLFReporter]

I actually have no problem getting kills in my lights. Even with the seismic module.
I think it is essential for a light and helps the lights more than it harms them. A Spider is quick enough to stand it's ground even when the other pilot has a module. He still has to look at the map to see where you are and while he does that he is distracted from many other things.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

The funny thing is that at the moment you dont' see Seismic THAT often because the cost in GXP and Cbills is very high, so only players who have been playing a lot and are probably in higher ELO tiers are using it. When you die, and watch other players as a spectator, how many are using it? I would say 5%, maybe less. That allows a big part of the community to think it's fine and not a big problem. "Oh, I still have kills in my light, I can't see a problem". Way to miss the point.

As everything else, with enough time, everyone will have it except novice players. Not only this will show how bad the effects of Seismic really are on gameplay, as explained a million times in the topic, but it will create an even bigger separation between new pilots and old pilots, whereas the gap they have to close is not the skill one, but the one that allows older players to install a cheat on their 'mechs. How many levels of wrong is that?

Edited by Lefteye, 11 July 2013 - 04:14 AM.

[topgun505]

I suggested this a while back. Considering your computer has no way of knowing the mass of the target, this is the only way seismic could possibly work. It should give bearings only. Right now it is just a god-mode cheat that has absolutely no business being in the game (despite it existing in the canon).

Ialdabaoth, on 10 July 2013 - 04:32 PM, said:

Another thought - rather than have it actually show the target's position, what about just having it show a heading to the target and a 'strength'? That way you can't tell whether you're looking at an Atlas 1 km away, or a Spider 300 meters away.

[Mudhutwarrior]

This is crazy. I drive and atlas and spiders are still a huge threat. Thing is why spend all that cash for a defensive system when I can just as soon plunk down short money on a lite and be the biggest threat on the battlefeild. Anyone who drives assults with any sense would concour. If your driving a spider and are sad you cant always suprise your victims I have no sympathaty for you. Had a match the other day where a very good spider pilot wiped out 4 assaults. Seismic had no bearing on the fight. Movement and tactics did. It took forever but he won the match for his team. My advice is if you want to drive one of the cheapest mechs in the game and compete with ones costing 10-15 million a pop you need to learn how to drive it. Lite pilots have gotten any threat to them nerfed in this game over and over while enjoing lag protection and messed up hitboxes. It has to stop. Learn to scout and be an asset to your team instead of expecting pgi welfare constantly.

[Rushin Roulette]

I guess it all boils down to skill.

The bad spider pilot will keep on leeroying his way around the map and complaining about the seismic sensor.
The good Spider pilot will be leeroying around the map and looking at his own Seismic sensor so that he can report the location of the enemy without turning that last fatal corner right into the enemy blob.

EDIT:

Lefteye, on 11 July 2013 - 04:12 AM, said:

The funny thing is that at the moment you dont' see Seismic THAT often because the cost in GXP and Cbills is very high, so only players who have been playing a lot and are probably in higher ELO tiers are using it.

Yup. in the higher ELO brackets and in 8v8 matches you will see at least 2 Mechs with Seismic per Team (mostly the scouts -a must have for any scout- and a few in the main team). There it is up to the scouts to report where the enemy is and the main team(s) to keep track of where the enemy scouts are to report this to their own scouts for when they get back.

Additionally to that, 1 or 2 UAVs per team (placed on the scouts) is a gigantic help to set up before a mass rush.. you arent surprised when you round that last corner.

Again... all of this takes a lot of coordination and communication between the teammembers on positioning and timing.

Edited by Rushin Roulette, 11 July 2013 - 06:18 AM.

[Lefteye Falconeer]

This is not hurting just lights. It is hurting everyone. It is actually hurting other Atlases too. Obviously you have your own playstyle and like a little bit of cheating, but this doesn't change the fact that in a game that is supposed to have a deep tactical layer based on line-of-sight and information warfare, having a wallhack function impoverishes gameplay for everybody.

[HumptyWasPushed]

Mechs should have to be stopped to use seismic, as per-cannon.

[Octantis]

You guys are missing the best part about the seismic sensor as a light. You can troll the enemy. Take Frozen city for example where you start on the low side. Nobody does a tunnel rush anymore because the high side people all have seismic and can see your force in the tunnel. So you grab a light buddy and move into the tunnel and walk real slow like an atlas. They will then commit 3 - 4 kills mechs to get the easy kill. Then the rest of your team marches over the drop ship and wipes out the other 4 that took off. Or if they decide to follow you into the tunnel you turn and high tail it out the way you came. In both cases you've nullified a lot of tonnage.

Also with seismic in lights I know when not to blindly run around a corner. Or better yet if no one turns to engage you then they are focused in front of themselves and you can get a few shots off. Then when they turn and chase you can again lead them on a wild goose chase.

Finally its easier to chase down other lights when you know which direction the guy went after he crossed a hill.

I have the most fun with seismic when I'm running lights.

[MechWarrior849305]

Seismic were never that close to wallhack as it is now. It's ridiculously the only one useful module ingame for now.

My thoughts: 1) sensor should detect heavier mechs from longer ranges and lighter mechs from shorter ranges - this has to be implemented AFTER and only AFTER hardpoint size restrictions (to prohibit installing PPCs on lights); 2) sensor should work only in the view cone on the mech and shouldn't detect mechs coming from behind; 3) Sensor should not pick signals instantly, but receive info one time per 5-10 seconds, so it can warn you about coming mechs, but can't show where they are.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Praetor Shepard, on 10 July 2013 - 03:50 PM, said:

I still like running Commandos and the Spider 5D, and I do okay with them as a PUG. What I've found is that one needs to be more picky in how to harass the enemy with such a light weapon payload and paper thin armor (the 5D being slightly tougher since it is smaller and has JJs), and after I try to scout to see where the enemy is going and how they are grouping themselves, I try to use cover and get locks for any LRMs, as I look for a place to strike for biggest impact where I can escape after if I can.

At some point I often lose patience and I will charge to draw attention and see if I could thin the enemy with a chase. Or I'd try to cap.

As for wins/losses that seems to depend on how pin-point high damage per shot either team is, and how good they are at hitting. Some matches are lopsided others are down to the wire.

So Seismic can be changed if enough people and PGI think there needs to be a change, but until then, I'm just gonna deal with it and have to use it also. The only real change I've noticed is in those lopsided matches how they seem to finish faster, but those often have much more to do with the effective use of focus fire from multiple mechs with PPCs, ERPPCs, Gauss, LRMs, etc, and likely voice comms too.

Well I applaud you for adjusting tactics to deal with siesmic detection, that is what more people need to do but it still appears your complaining about having to adjust tactics.

Honestly, 99% of the problems people complain about can be solved by changing tactics. Sure it harder and/or requires more skill but it is not the games fault if people are lazy or want EZ-mode rampage for their perfered mechs.

For example, my perfered mech is a QD, a 60 ton mech the size of an Atlas and though quick at 98 kph, no where near the speed of most light mech builds. Yet some how, some way I don't seem to have a problem with getting around a flank or ambushing an enemy. Just two nights ago in fact, in a single match I managed to sneak up and core out 2 enemy mechs from the rear. I do it all the time.

Now honestly, if I can do it in a 60 ton QD the size of the Empire State Building, how can it be so hard for light mechs to do the same thing.

Heck I will go one further and turn it all around on any light complaining about siesmic. One of the things that makes my QD so SUCCESSFUL at ambushing and flanking IS seismic sensors. By using seismic for example I can see where the enemy is rather than making blind manuvers. I can also generally determine their movement directions and facing just by watching the minimap which in turn allows me to approach from behind or with some other tactical advantage. Hell siesmic should be considered a godsend for Light mechs simpily because your not going to find yourself jumping or running over a hill only to find the entire enemy team standing there with guns trained on you.

Basically if your in a light mech and NOT using seismic to plan out your approach vectors and lines of attack, then your doing it wrong.

In the end seismic confers just as much advantage if not moreso to a light mech than any other weight class IF the light mechs mount it and IF they actually use it tactically and with skill.