65 replies to this topic

[zraven7]

PPCs are, in many ways, a Gauss cannon. They just fire charged particles instead of a ferrous slug. They use similar magnetic fields and capacitors. By that logic, if a Gauss blows up, a PPC should blow up. Make PPCs do 20 damage when they go up. That should help balance them some.

[von Pilsner]

Even if it balances nothing it would be pretty funny...

[Lostdragon]

I think that is just a band aid solution and doesn't address the core problems that have led to PPC dominance.

Edited by Lostdragon, 08 July 2013 - 12:46 PM.

[Tibs]

Or make you blow your self up like old mw game i had 3. Ppcs and went nova on mech. Had something were you blow your self up be.less ppc boating. But only hurt your self vs others around you when you explode)

[zraven7]

von Pilsner, on 08 July 2013 - 12:38 PM, said:

Even if it balances nothing it would be pretty funny...

The funny thing is, this means you could chain-detonate up to 3 PPCs on a stalker.

[One Medic Army]

Because Stalkers get their arms blown up all the time.

Oh wait...

All exploding weapons do is hurt people who use them on mediums/lights and/or mount them in a torso.
It'd hurt the Gauss+PPC highlander but it would do very little to affect the Atlas-RS or Stalker-F.

[zraven7]

Lostdragon, on 08 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

I think that is just a band aid solution and doesn't address the core problems that have lead to PPC dominance.

Solution or not, it makes sense. Don't get me wrong, this would make my Raven 4X into more of a walking death-trap than it already is, but it makes perfect sense, and really should be implemented. It's the capacitor and magnetic array that blows on the Gauss. The PPC has the same thing, possible more powerful.

[Roland]

Well, PPC's don't blow up from being destroyed in the TT game.

However, with normal PPC's, at less than 90m, you cannot fire them AT ALL in the TT game, due to safety mechanisms that are put in place on them.

In order to fire them at less than 90m range, you have to disable those safeties, and then firing them has a chance to create an electromagnetic feedback loop. THAT then destroys the PPC and does damage to the shooter.

Implementation of a system like this would at least put something of a crimp on mechs which are infighting with standard PPC's.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Roland, on 08 July 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Well, PPC's don't blow up from being destroyed in the TT game.

However, with normal PPC's, at less than 90m, you cannot fire them AT ALL in the TT game, due to safety mechanisms that are put in place on them.

In order to fire them at less than 90m range, you have to disable those safeties, and then firing them has a chance to create an electromagnetic feedback loop. THAT then destroys the PPC and does damage to the shooter.

Implementation of a system like this would at least put something of a crimp on mechs which are infighting with standard PPC's.

Gauss rifle also has a minimum range in TT, right? How does that one work there?

[Lostdragon]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 08 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Gauss rifle also has a minimum range in TT, right? How does that one work there?

Gauss rifle slugs are supposed to move at incredible velocity but they are middle of the road in MWO when it comes to projectile velocity, so that is somewhat of a balancing factor. They are probably still too good in close though.

[Roland]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 08 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Gauss rifle also has a minimum range in TT, right? How does that one work there?

I don't think they ever really explained why they removed that feature from MWO.

I'd normally guess pure laziness, but given that the PPC does have a min range, I have no idea. There was never any point in MWO's development where the gauss was "too weak" and needed to be buffed. Lots of folks have suggested that its min range be put back in.

Generally, the argument against the min range is "it doesn't make sense", but in a game where you have giant robots flying around the galaxy fighting each other with giant axes and crap, "making sense" really shouldn't be your prime motivation for balance decisions.

[Ghost Rider LSOV]

Thanks for the quick answers.

Edited by Ghost Rider LSOV, 08 July 2013 - 12:57 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 08 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Gauss rifle also has a minimum range in TT, right? How does that one work there?

I'd always assumed it was due to the difficulty in aiming at a close-in target with such a large heavy weapon, as in the projectile would hit and deal damage but the difficulty was in getting it to hit in the first place.

Which falls in-line with the minimum range mechanics of TT, where you take a to-hit penalty for firing at something within minimum range.

[Lugh]

Tibs, on 08 July 2013 - 12:40 PM, said:

Or make you blow your self up like old mw game i had 3. Ppcs and went nova on mech. Had something were you blow your self up be.less ppc boating. But only hurt your self vs others around you when you explode)

Oh no that needs in too. A reactor explosion can be devastating to your team as well as the enemy.

[stjobe]

The only balancing the PPC needs is a return to the pre-HSR heat and projectile speeds.

Those were boosted to make the PPC viable in the pre-HSR game. With HSR, they aren't needed, and they are what makes the PPC so very, very good.

Basically it was double-buffed. It only needs one of them, and removing HSR doesn't seem like a great idea.

[PropagandaWar]

One Medic Army, on 08 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

I'd always assumed it was due to the difficulty in aiming at a close-in target with such a large heavy weapon, as in the projectile would hit and deal damage but the difficulty was in getting it to hit in the first place.

Which falls in-line with the minimum range mechanics of TT, where you take a to-hit penalty for firing at something within minimum range.

Me too. Arm convergence makes sense, but then again even in the arms its what 14 tons. Thats over a quarter of the weight more than several of the mechs that carry them. Anything toros mounted should be static. BFG's in arms should converge slower. Give a 10% convergence penalty on any weapon over 6 tons in the arms and again make all Torso Weapons Static.

[General Taskeen]

Just a heads up, the PPC's have built in field inhibitor's which could be turned on or off according to the rules.

If they were turned off (by daring pilots) there was a chance the damage feedback could blow up the weapon or damage the Mech.

This could be added as a simulation button press, and just make it so if you turn it off you get full damage in min range, but the closer something is while you are firing, the higher the chance is that you are going to cause damage to yourself. I think that is a better trade off, and it adds more simulation-control aspects.

[HansBlix WMD]

There was a very original suggestion floating around here somewhere to allow some weapons to penetrate armor when hitting sections with PPC hardpoints, the rationale being there must be some big old hole somewhere for the projectile to come out of. Could an LBX-10 find that hole?

Maybe you can work that in somehow; with the field inhibitor off you become vulnerable to armor-pen crits from MG's and LBX or something.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Ghost Rider LSOV, on 08 July 2013 - 12:46 PM, said:

Gauss rifle also has a minimum range in TT, right? How does that one work there?

Gauss Rifles already have enough drawbacks to deal with, without adding another.

HansBlix WMD, on 08 July 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

There was a very original suggestion floating around here somewhere to allow some weapons to penetrate armor when hitting sections with PPC hardpoints, the rationale being there must be some big old hole somewhere for the projectile to come out of. Could an LBX-10 find that hole?

Maybe you can work that in somehow; with the field inhibitor off you become vulnerable to armor-pen crits from MG's and LBX or something.

If cluster LBX 10's did crit seeking that would make them interesting indeed.

[Roland]

I suspect that even if they implemented the min range on gauss, it would still get used exactly as much as it does now... especially given that the min range is supposed to be 30m.

At 30m, you are essentially mashing your face against the target in Mechwarrior... which is probably the real reason they didn't add in the min range. It doesn't really matter.