99 replies to this topic

[Pht]

Mechs are not nearly as dense as they look.

Theyve got a very simplified endo-skeletal structure of from maybe 16 to 25 bones that support their structure. Their armor is at most a few centimeters thick; usually around a few millimeters thick, and myomer is very strong for it's weight.

Tanks these days are heavy because they mount several INCHES of armor and (relative to fusion engine weights for similar power output) heavy hydrocarbon internal/external combustion engines.

[Harlock Fredrick]

Does it realy matter how much a Mech weight is? I mean come on its sci fi, make beleave. Its a great story with lots of cool stuff and ideas. Battletech universe is a great story showing how greedy we can get. Its about War love politics and much more. Lets just leave it at that and enjoy the game for what its worth. And if you want to say will this and that on its weight just think of this. Its the inner sphere!!! spread out among the stars and who knows what metals are out there and what we can find and not every planet has are Gravity. heck if a Atlas lands on the the moon or another planet do you think it would be the same weight as if it was on earth? asnwer will be no. Not only that but i dont think all the Inner sphere would use earths metals for every building and mech and so forth. Who knows what we would find out there. Lets enjoy the battletech Universe and move onto winning battles in the game.

[Batley]

I love you nerds.

[Hauser]

It's 80's sci-fi for a game that has to fit on a dining table.

Between those two you can just about explain all problems you might imagine.

When you compare it to something like say Warhammer 40k you can tell the original designers were not tripping balls. They actually tried to put a serious, historically and politically grounded, lowtech space opera inspired by Japanese mecha-anime. The downside of it is that it doesn't punch the fantasy override as hard as Warhammer.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Hyperlynx, on 14 July 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

These other facts may surprise you about reality vs battletech:

• In reality, the larger the calibre of the weapon the greater the range you can expect from it. In battletech, the inverse is true.
  
• 
  
• Modern 30mm armour-piercing rotary cannon, such as the A-10's GAU-8, do overheat if fired for more than a few seconds. However, in that time, the GAU-8 delivers 140 depleted uranium or explosive rounds, each the size of a glass milk bottle.

Point 1:
Did some research on Tank weapons, the Abrams frequently fires shells with a fuse, limiting their maximum range far below it's potential - I rather figure they did similar things with say... the AC/20 over the AC/2 (less collateral damage that way?)

Point 2:
In the lore of the series Autocannons do not fire a single shot (some do, but most AC/20's do NOT) but rather several rounds that add up to the total dmg (does not really explain why AC'***** 1 location where-as SRM/UAC/LBAC do not....)

[dal10]

Shar Wolf, on 23 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

Point 2:
In the lore of the series Autocannons do not fire a single shot (some do, but most AC/20's do NOT) but rather several rounds that add up to the total dmg (does not really explain why AC'***** 1 location where-as SRM/UAC/LBAC do not....)

Depends on the cannon. some ac/20s are 120 mm guns that fire multiple rounds. some are 150mm high velocity cannons. some are 200 mm guns that basically fires a solid metal trashcan.

[Alaskan Nobody]

dal10, on 23 July 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Depends on the cannon. some ac/20s are 120 mm guns that fire multiple rounds. some are 150mm high velocity cannons. some are 200 mm guns that basically fires a solid metal trashcan.

Shar Wolf, on 23 July 2013 - 05:49 PM, said:

In the lore of the series Autocannons do not fire a single shot (some do, but most AC/20's do NOT)

I had mentioned that, but apparently you missed. (of course the way I said it could be miss-read... but that is another matter... maybe)

Edited by Shar Wolf, 23 July 2013 - 08:11 PM.

[Justy Starflare]

The mechs weigh much more then listed. The weights given are purely for construction and game play purposes. Or you can go with the flow and accept many of these materials used in the construction of mechs (that don't exist circa 2013) are super light and super tough.

[Nebfer]

Justy Starflare, on 24 July 2013 - 08:13 AM, said:

The mechs weigh much more then listed. The weights given are purely for construction and game play purposes. Or you can go with the flow and accept many of these materials used in the construction of mechs (that don't exist circa 2013) are super light and super tough.

The Fluff, indicates that the mechs weigh what their listed.

The weights and size of the mechs are like in many made up universes, puled out of thin air, Battlemechs range from 20 to 100 tons, as thats what "their creators" felt was good, and it was not to different from real life armored vehicles as a bonus...

Size well it was decided that mechs can hide behind a level 2 elivation change, which was arbitrarily decided as 12 meters tall (a single "level" being 6 meters high).

In realty sure battlemechs should float due to their density’s... But compared to a number of other mecha Battlmechs are actually fairly heavy... Most Mobile suits from the Gundam series are around 18 meters tall and roughly in the same weight range as medium & heavy battlemechs, and later on in the series (the UC time line that is) weigh under 30 tons...
Many of the mecha in Macross are as tall if not taller than many heavy battlmechs but weigh less than many light mechs.
Though this issue of light weight mechs in fact not unique to mecha at all, many other vehicles are often lighter than they should be... For example the Halo Scorpion Tank is a enormous tank (far bigger than the Maus of WW2 fame) yet only weight 66 tons, their Frigates are something like under 10,000 tons (for a ship bigger than a Nimitz class carrier which is 100,000 tons).

[dal10]

Shar Wolf, on 23 July 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

I had mentioned that, but apparently you missed. (of course the way I said it could be miss-read... but that is another matter... maybe)

actually all acs have versions that fire single rounds. it really depends on the manufacturers, ac/20s were the only ones i could think of off the top of my head though. just for disparity, riflemans were depicted and giant machine guns. while the shadow hawk fired 3 round bursts. i think the marauder fired single rounds, but don't quote me on that one. (marauder has ac/5)

[Alaskan Nobody]

I am aware that all the AC have variants that fire a single round (I would believe that most AC/2 do... )

However, from what little I know the only AC/20 that fire a single round are found on the Demolisher TANK - not on any mechs.

Several posts in other topics (wish I could remember which ones ) have been talking about how in the lore, the single shot AC/20 would knock over any mech firing it.

[Mordamir]

This argument tends to develop with people taking futuristic tech too far into reality...ala Star Wars/Star Trek etc. It also sadly happens in fantasy genres..

You guys need to keep in mind that:

1. There are FUTURISTIC technologies involved, both in engineering, power and alloys. If they were realistic with what we have today, wouldn't we already have that technology now?

2. Future tech is similar to "magic" in fantasy settings, in that it is a plot workaround to make the story/game work as the creator intended. If you don't get how A or B works, it's futuristic tech!!(magic)

it's like trying to argue the realism of Superman's flight, or the Force. You're meant to have some mystics and things left unexplained to the Nth degree.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Who was it who said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"?

[Nebfer]

dal10, on 26 July 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

actually all acs have versions that fire single rounds. it really depends on the manufacturers, ac/20s were the only ones i could think of off the top of my head though. just for disparity, riflemans were depicted and giant machine guns. while the shadow hawk fired 3 round bursts. i think the marauder fired single rounds, but don't quote me on that one. (marauder has ac/5)

The 120mm cannon on the marauder fired 3 round bursts (though in a much later novel, it's strangely a 50mm weapon with a unknown burst size)...

[Alaskan Nobody]

Nebfer, on 27 July 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

The 120mm cannon on the marauder fired 3 round bursts (though in a much later novel, it's strangely a 50mm weapon with a unknown burst size)...

Different manufacturer? They did a lot of swapping of parts when they didn't have the supplies after all.

[Royalewithcheese]

Wait a second, would a Stalker float? Gives "PPC boat" a new meaning...

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

dal10, on 23 July 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

Depends on the cannon. some ac/20s are 120 mm guns that fire multiple rounds. some are 150mm high velocity cannons. some are 200 mm guns that basically fires a solid metal trashcan.

Battletech has guns that fire a single round instead of a burst of fire, they are called Rifles ..ala the Gauss Rifle but without the Gauss.

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Light_Rifle
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/medium_Rifle
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/heavy_Rifle

[King Arthur IV]

one word, MAGIC!!!

[Skadi]

YOU DARE BRING PHYSICS TO THE TABLE AT A BATTLETECH DISCUSSION?

[Strum Wealh]

Shar Wolf, on 27 July 2013 - 08:46 AM, said:

Who was it who said "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic"?

That would be the late Sir Arthur C. Clarke, with the statement itself being "Clarke's Third Law".