46 replies to this topic

[Bobdolemite]

Win Loss Ratio

2102/2100

extremely close to 1:1, but keep in mind this fluctuates. I want to try to find my old numbers from a few weeks ago. The one sidedness has gotten much more steep in the last two weeks.

While I am not against making friends and getting solo players together on a team, i refuse to join a "clan" I have had tremendous bad experiences with guilds, clans... whatever you want to call it. I did it for literally years and got tired of ridiculous personalities, arbitrary times and dates when I have to play, and constant BS from overzealous management types. i refuse to submit myself to it for ANY game.

And I dont think that convert or die is an appropriate response many other games make both sides happy with proven systems (all of which are somehow ignored for this game - which by extension of that thought must be so unique somehow that these dont apply....)

IMO balance will be impossible for this game while the matchmaking system is pitting a preform group against pickup groups. what you get is massive tonnage imbalance coupled with organized hard pushes and focused aiming a recipe for disaster for whichever team is not lucky enough to get a competent group.

I have seen ROFLSTOMPS lose, I have seen average groups lose, and ive seen terrible groups.... do what they do (which is tantamount to some of the worst PUG players ive seen)
But IMO wining vs an organized team is a relative rarity when compared to the vast experience of getting rolled by one (I dont have numbers to back this up but maybe I should try to get some eh...)

A funny note someone in here describer the old 4 man and 8 man full preform queues in THE EXACT WAY that I would describe the current matchmaking system. Inability to roll a chassis with any kind of versatillity, grind mechs being a frustrating experience, imbalanced matches, having to resort to cheese or face the consequences. For me it is nearly impossible to have any success without going to high/max alpha FOTM type builds, anything else's success is so mixed that its almost not worth it to try.

[Xie Belvoule]

[Chemie]

meteorol, on 14 July 2013 - 05:43 AM, said:

The sad thing is this is 100% true.
Check out the teams at the start of the match, and watch what your team is doing in the first 15 seconds.
You pretty much know for sure you will lose the match if you see certain things (you mentioned some of them).
It's somewhat hilarious that you can predict a bash for your team with a accurateness of like 75% during the first 15 sec of a match.

Let's add to the list as "after the game started":

You have a couple of players shooting LPL all over the place...great. We have the worst energy weapon in the game on our side and opfor has PPC. Game is already over.

You see a guy run out ahead, and rush the ridge on frozen and gets killed in 3 seconds.

[SpiralRazor]

SirLANsalot, on 13 July 2013 - 10:26 PM, said:

Easy....make some friends.

Even when I solo que I get some bad games too, but I get genrally some decent games due to my own performance in my mechs. I have a few that if I take them its almost a gurenteed win if I live though the battles, sometimes I do, sometimes I don't (mechs are a Heavy Metal with 3LL, and a Cata 4x with 4 AC5 2 ML so no stupid LOL PPC). If you get a few kills on your own, then you will win most games, if you can't even manage that, or are a very poor shot, you WILL lose every game.

When I PUG group (as in not with my unit) the games can be very interesting based on who I am with and how the ELO system "balances" us out based on our mech classes we are taking.


Also, the game generally dose take 2 4 Mans and pits them against eachother, never dose it stack them on one side without doing the same on the other. 4 Mans are seen by the system as such, regardless of how many people are actually in the group, it then takes the players and fills in the gaps if a 4 man isn't full. So if the game pits 4, 4 mans against eachother, 2 on one side might be full, and the other side might be 2, 2 mans but they "count" as 4 mans in the systems eyes. I have also seen pure grouped teams (3 groups on each side) with 2 3 mans and 1 2 man filling out ABC lances.

LOL>..no, no it doesnt...we rollllllllllll pugs all day long and only get another 4 man in about once every 4 matches.

[No Guts No Glory]

Lykaon, on 14 July 2013 - 02:37 AM, said:

Guess you missed the time PGI caved and divided the ques into 8 player mandatory and up to 4 max ?

And as a solo player you have no idea how much of a pain in the marble bag it is to keep 8 man mandatory sized groups running for exstended (read as more than three matches) periods.

Also as a solo player you may be unaware that 8 v 8 mandatory group size que matches are nearly 100% try hard of don't show types of affairs.

Considering it was the group players originally clamoring for the 8-man queue and group players griefing with the excuse they didn't have an 8-man queue, I'm pretty sure it wasn't solo droppers PGI caved to.

And Ironically no one had trouble maintaining 8 players in their group when they could drop 8 against pugs.

8 vs 8 is try-hard cause it's competitive. Which is exactly the argument the groups made as a reason to implement it. Games against pugs weren't competitive. Apparently 8-mans is too hard.

Let's also not forget that many groups drop into the 4 man queue with the same cheese FoTM competitive builds that they complain are required to be competitive in 8-mans.

Only a few groups want truly competitive games. The rest just want easy mode.



And as an aside. Stop replying with " Get some friends". Same thing applies to groups that can't consistently field 8. Get more friends. Lot's of 4-mans use the excuse they can't field 8. Combine your 4 mans and drop in the 8 man queue if you truly want competitive games.


Like I said, force a similar sized group on each team with groups being indicated in the scoreboard.

Also, PGI needs to give a damn reply about these threads somewhere so we don't have to see them anymore. An official reply would let players decide to ultimately quit or not.

[Hexenhammer]

There is a way to balance pugs vs grops . Just shut down all the TS, Vent, and Mumble serves so no one can communicate with each other because the problem isn't the group but coordination and communication or the lack there of.

[SecondReversal]

OP your tears, they are delicious.

[Squiggy McPew]

Hmm, just started playing again after a break to get back into eve and am having a blast with my cat a1. I'm just lone wolfing it and trying to stay slightly behind a group to shower my steel rain on whoever they flush out. Maybe the ones with issues lone wolfing it are literally running out alone and wondering why they got melted asap. Just because you are not part of a group doesn't mean you can't work with your team.

[Kenyon Burguess]

a solo dropping system wont save you from players synching and using teamspeak to coordinate. you will still be farmed. you either need to get proactive and get on teamspeak or pgi needs to add a com system of their own. the game is balanced that if you take the time to type "mech X at...." you have already taken considerable damage, if not cored. using your voice is the only option to playing the game successfully.

[MegaZordTrololo]

With 12 v 12 coming, 4 man groups will be less capable of forcing the result of a match.

In fact I found that 12v12 improved the game in general when playing during the public test. Fights would less often be ROFLstomps with a losing side forming pockets of resistance capable of felling at least a few more of the enemy before they succumb. However I admit this might have something to do with the low likelihood of braindead or inexperienced players being present in the public tests.

[Bobdolemite]

SecondReversal, on 14 July 2013 - 02:43 PM, said:

OP your tears, they are delicious.

Troll harder please (your not really succeeding yet) oh and who are you lol thats 17 posts ..... your no one - move along nothing to see here =)

BTW people seem to think that just because I want a solo queue means that I think that teamwork is OP. this is simply not true, I would LOVE to have an in game comm system so that the communications part of the game was balanced for everyone. Currently in most games I try to call out enemy locations regularly, I like to think in many occasions I have saved the team with seismic simply because I can type fast.

I am in the boat that says "I want to click launch and get into games" not the "hey lets pop into teamspeak hey whos here great hey you over there wanna get in a group awesome... key clicks... alrighty ready to go, oh your not ready ... finger tapping... okay lets go" *hits launch*

I dont think its unheard of that the game should have integrated voice IE a room per team per game automatically setup and toggled via the options menu. This would close a large part of the gap that is created by 4 man groups, but even in the event that they had integrated voice I still think we need a solo/PUG only queue.

There is a fundamental difference between how PUG and preform teams play, and I actually enjoy new teammates in every drop and trying to coordinate and work together in order to win. I actually find it far more challenging than the idea of always knowing who my lancemates are and what type of mech they are in. PUG games provide variety and allow for trying new things without immediately being laughed off the field. The whole rinse and repeat nature of groups is abhorrent to me.

I think that Pugging actually forces you to be a better player due in part to the randomness and lack of communication (lets be honest even if we had voicecomm some PUG players would still not use it - at least they can still hear though) but also due to having to be very flexible in order to be successful.

I think that a solo queue would enrich this game by giving the competitive 4-8 mans a chance to actually have a challenge by competing against one another instead of random players. I think that it would help new player immersion into the game without the fricken sharks with fricken laser beams attached to their heads melting their faces from 800m out then laughing about it. I think it would provide a place for the MANY Pug only enthusiasts such as myself a place to play without so much frustration.

All in all id say everyone would be happier with separate queues except of course the preforms that want easy street. And I for one am willing to put up with longer queue times if its for PUG only.

[Dreamslave]

It's a team based game. Why is this concept so hard to comprehend? A separate queue is a ridiculously awful idea.

[FupDup]

Dreamslave, on 14 July 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

It's a team based game. Why is this concept so hard to comprehend? A separate queue is a ridiculously awful idea.

[Dreamslave]

FupDup, on 14 July 2013 - 08:03 PM, said:

Almost the proper use of that meme, except you're only referring to one part of teamwork. When a Pug player, a.k.a. the "solo player" doesn't fight with the 4 man on his team and instead thinks he's gods gift to the earth and does whatever he wants, he's automatically in the wrong. It's the same when 4 "solo players" use team chat to coordinate some semblance of a strat and another "solo player" goes off on his own. There is no reason to implement a solo queue if the solo players, like the OP, worked with their damn teams, including the listening or at least following the four mans.

[FupDup]

Dreamslave, on 14 July 2013 - 08:09 PM, said:

Almost the proper use of that meme, except you're only referring to one part of teamwork. When a Pug player, a.k.a. the "solo player" doesn't fight with the 4 man on his team and instead thinks he's gods gift to the earth and does whatever he wants, he's automatically in the wrong. It's the same when 4 "solo players" use team chat to coordinate some semblance of a strat and another "solo player" goes off on his own. There is no reason to implement a solo queue if the solo players, like the OP, worked with their damn teams, including the listening or at least following the four mans.

Coordinated pugs still have two disadvantages over coordinated premades:

1. Dependency on text-based communication. The chat is very slow and if you make a mistake it's hard to clear out the bad text (why did they have to nerf backspace?). It is also usually pretty suicidal to use text chat during direct combat, meaning that they can't relay important information during that time--a weakness which VOIP doesn't have. This of course can be cured just by adding VOIP with or without a solo que.

2. Pugs can't choose who they get teamed up with. Elo doesn't always do a very good job; due to the nature of using the "average" Elo per team it is vulnerable to outliers such as having just a few really high up folks teamed with a whole bunch of nubcakes to even it out. Premade teams can have a guarantee of up to 4 skilled/capable players whereas pugs have to deal with the cards they are dealt. This point can be fixed by making the matchmaker not suck and doesn't necessarily require a solo que either.

2B. Since they can't choose who they team up with, they also can't take roles/builds that synergize. For instance, a pug LRM boat is probably gonna have a bad time if there aren't any spotters on the team. Pug teammates also may lack important "optimal" items such as DHS or Seismic Sensors (both of which are very vital to have) and may even be equipped with bad loadouts (LPL boats, MGs, etc.).



The point I'm making is that premades have the ability to bypass many of the weaknesses that puggers face. Although this doesn't necessarily have to be solved with a solo que, such might make it easier to group people up with "like minded" players.

[Bishop Steiner]

funny part is people **** and moan when they drop with a premade on the other side that is well coordinated, but never complain when they have one on their side.

Same people will whinge when they lose the PUG lottery in Solo Que too.

Basic human nature: To whine and complain when things don't our way and to conveniently overlook the number of times they DO go our way.

[Roland]

There isn't any real argument that can be made against a solo queue.

The argument "Oh man, you're gonna split up the game's population!" doesn't really hold water, because if there are a large percentage of players who would find it more enjoyable to play in a solo queue, then that means that is the right thing to do.. because then those people are more likely to continue playing, and more importantly, get other people they know to play.. and then eventually play in the "real" queue.

The idea of saying, "Group X shouldn't be allowed to play, because doing so would split things up, so we should force them to play in a manner we see fit" doesn't work. Because eventually, those people are just gonna stop playing anyway, and then you're gonna have the same ultimate result in the main queue.. it'll be just as if those people got split off into their own queue, only instead of them playing this game in another queue, they'll just be playing some other game, and telling folks that Mechwarrior sucks balls.

[Funckadelic Mayhem]

solo ques NOW!

Only MWO can make winning as unfun as loosing! "Ya we won in 3 minutes killed everyone on the other team and only lost one mech... ya gg." Its absolute bantha poodoo!!!

[Kobold]

Problem is the no-respawn game mode. I've been saying this for a year now (though I've been avoiding the forums for the past few months). Compare this to Counter-Strike. CS has no respawns, but it has new rounds that start again. Objective based game modes like domination/capture the flag in other games have respawns.

The result if this is even if a player is TERRIBLE, they can continue playing without having to re-drop over and over. Less time between games = more fun = less complaining, even if people are losing.

[Pat Kell]

I tend to split my time between pugs and group dropping (4 man) and when I pug i tend to see solo players and when I 4 man, i tend to see 4 man groups filled in wiith pugs. Its not everytime of course but the biggest reason I've seen that people get rolled is simply not playing as a team. Running off by yourself or splitting up into to smaller groups will cause you to lose more often then not...a lot more often. You can cry all you want but it doesn't take comms or 4 man groups to stay close to your friends and that wins fights more then comms or 4 man teams. Just pay attention to your mini map and where your friends are at. Also realizing that when an enemy has a filled in triangle above it, it means one of your friends are shooting it. Shoot him too and he tends to die faster. Not buying this arguement at all.

Not opposed to a separate solo que just please understand that its not going to fix your problem of getting rolled. Only you can do that by working as a team...,..or hoping that your enemy doesn't.