42 replies to this topic

[One Medic Army]

Kobold, on 14 July 2013 - 09:24 PM, said:

People complain if the other team brings heavies and out guns them. People complain if the other team brings lights and out caps them.

And the world continues to turn.

Well, the big issues are that the matchmaker doesn't balance like numbers of lights on each side; and that capping pretty much screws over both sides in terms of both CBill payout and actually getting enjoyment out of the match.
I can see capping for the win if it was actually rewarded, or if winning mattered (it doesn't, yet).

[Elizander]

Why bother leaving your base? Just wait for them to get there. Works great on Alpine

[Gierling]

WVAnonymous, on 14 July 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Wow, a TK to avoid a win. That's... stupid.

It is more like a TK to avoid shame and dishonor.

I don't want to play a game where capping gets in the way of fighting, I'm going to play TDM whether you like it or not. Realistically the only thing accomplished by not having a pure TDM mode is to make the game less fun for the people that Enjoy capping as they are now stuck playing with people who are playing TDM and refuse to get involved in capping.

[Circles End]

Gierling, on 14 July 2013 - 11:12 PM, said:

It is more like a TK to avoid shame and dishonor.

I am baffled and confused by this statement. To me this is a total case of "STOP HAVING FUN!" by the TK'ers. I simply don't know what else to say.

[FunkyFritter]

My basic opening strategy while playing a light mech:
1. Traverse a generally safe path towards the enemy base to scout
2. If no enemy is spotted, threaten a cap
3. Sit there until an enemy makes the trip back

If your default gameplan suffers a cap loss to that you may want to try something new.

[Gierling]

Circles End, on 14 July 2013 - 11:29 PM, said:

I am baffled and confused by this statement. To me this is a total case of "STOP HAVING FUN!" by the TK'ers. I simply don't know what else to say.

Capping is not fun, in any circumstance, or any way. I would rather lose on kills then win on "capping". It is a concept that I find completely alien to good gameplay. People TK cappers because they thoroughly despise cappers ending the actual fun part of the experience which revolves around fighting.

Its like you are having a good fun battle and someone cuts it short by "standing in the magic box".

It is Mech-WARRIOR online, not Mech-Loiterer online.

I feel absolutely no reward for a cap win, the FIGHT is the reason I play the game. I don't care about Cbills, I don't care about XP. I only care about having good enjoyable fights. Capping reduces fighting, so it is bad and must be opposed.

People force me to cut short the thing I'm actually paying to enjoy (The fighting) so in principle I despise and revile those people, even if they are on my own team. Moreover they are ruining the game experience for something utterly arbitrary and meaningless (Cbills, XP, a little screen that says they are winners)

I'm not a winner unless I outfight the enemy, don't insult me by saying I'm a winner because I avoided fighting.

[Appogee]

Gierling, on 14 July 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

I'm not a winner unless I outfight the enemy, don't insult me by saying I'm a winner because I avoided fighting.

You just made Sun Tzu turn in his grave.

[Shadowsword8]

Novakaine, on 14 July 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Another weekend of Capwarrior Online seriously PGI can we fix this.
Why waste time even trying to play this game if some monkey thinks it's funny to run straight
to the opposing cap.
Yeah yeah I know base defense blah blah heard it before.
Valid tactic yeah heard that too, so save it...

You know about it, yet you do nothing to adapt to it. The issue, as well as it's solution, is clearly between your chair and your keyboard.

Working as intended. Those that can't do anything but hug together like a bunch of sheeps and charge blindly in the enemy's general direction deserve neither victory, nor fun.

Gierling, on 14 July 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

I'm not a winner unless I outfight the enemy, don't insult me by saying I'm a winner because I avoided fighting.

But you certainly are a loser when you're outwitted by the enemy. Which is the whole point of capping. Winning isn't only about aiming and outgunning, but also about using your brain. Which is an organ you seem unwilling to bring in the fight.

Edited by Shadowsword8, 15 July 2013 - 01:15 AM.

[SmoothCriminal]

Just have one cap point in the middle of the map and call it TDM. The problem with TDM and no capping is that a single light could potentially avoid the other team and stretch the game out forever.

That said I don't mind conquest, and this current meta of bring-as-many-ppcs-to-the-party bores me.

[Victor Morson]

Novakaine, on 14 July 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

Another weekend of Capwarrior Online seriously PGI can we fix this.
Why waste time even trying to play this game if some monkey thinks it's funny to run straight
to the opposing cap.
Yeah yeah I know base defense blah blah heard it before.
Valid tactic yeah heard that too, so save it.
Splitting the the opposing team, gee really clever huh.
Non of that is what i'm talking about.
Nothing like being on a team with a monkey lance gigling about ******* off the other team by early capping.
Not freaking funny.
More than one match where people were so pissed off they resorted to team killing in frustration.
So PGI let do something about this okay?
I know my frustration is high.

If you were smarter than a monkey, you'd defend your base.

[-Natural Selection-]

Basicly alot of people dont like the current game modes, and seems as though KOTH would be a good option to fix it. I dont like these modes for the same reason as others. And telling people how they should try to control a team of strangers is stupid.

[HeavyRain]

Erata, on 14 July 2013 - 08:08 PM, said:

tl;dr: King of the Hill base mechanics.

Why don't they put a single base in a random position, determined by their metrics IDing their traffic/combat hotspots, to play a tug-of-war style capture scheme?

For new maps, they can estimate the positions based on previous designs and traffic habits the playerbase has established by now.

That way, there's no whining about back-capping and assault becomes the TDM game it's meant to be, and no one loadout, in the deep dark future after balance changes roll out, will be king-robot since the capture point will change position every new game.

If you know where everybody is going to end up (the base), won't everybody ride around in stalkers?

[Shadowsword8]

SmoothCriminal, on 15 July 2013 - 01:13 AM, said:

Just have one cap point in the middle of the map and call it TDM.

To have light mechs slaughtered like fish in a barrel by assault sniper/LRM? What would be the point to piloting anything but an Assault then?

Quote

The problem with TDM and no capping is that a single light could potentially avoid the other team and stretch the game out forever.

They can't if the other team is:

A/ Smart enough to stay close to their base, to interrupt the capping until every hostile mech has been located.

B/ Smart enough to have it's own lights and mediums return and go kill the capper. A concept known as, gasp, splitting the group.

C/ Smart enough to actually wait to see what the enemy is doing before they head to the map's center.

But the prerequisite for that is to be able to take decisions according to the situation. Which, admittedly, over half the population seem unable to do...




For all intends and purposes, what the "I don't play capwarrior!" crowd really want is a corridor map, 150m wide, with no necessity to adapt to the enemy's moves.

And how fun would that be?

[BigJim]

Reggimus, on 14 July 2013 - 10:38 PM, said:

. or bring lights.

That's much of the issue - In pugs, Lights' main job is to counter enemy Lights. Scouting is nice & all, but it's not really coordinated enough to allow for really sophisticated intel gathering other than "they went left", or "they're on 2-line".

So really, the main job of the Light is to ensure the enemy lights can't have their wicked-way with you, either by spotting for lurms, or capping.

Buuuuut - If team A have got a couple of lights, and don't have any enemy lights to counter, but do face against a tonne of PPC stalkers, triple-peep/gauss highlanders, etc.. then what the hell do you expect them to do?

It's often said that a good light can take on a lone heavy or assault, and yeah - that's possible - if the MWO gods are in your favour, but you try out manoeuvring a peep-boat while he's got 7x other peep-boats all around him, and you're asking for a slap round the face from several angles at once.

So this is why I feel much of this marlarky happens, because everyone and his dog wants to be heavy as can be, so the Lights find themselves with a completely open base any nobody with the inclination to stop them...

It's like a kid walking into an empty sweet shop - what would you do?

[-Natural Selection-]

Maybe Ill start quad boxing 4 lights with accell cap just to see how well you guys really do defend.

[Shadowsword8]

Dozier, on 15 July 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

Maybe Ill start quad boxing 4 lights with accell cap just to see how well you guys really do defend.

You're welcome to try.

But, if you succeed, you won't see me complaining that I got outwitted, I'll just adapt. How about you guys do the same?

[Khobai]

Base capping is easy wins. Until PGI fixes it theres nothing wrong with getting easy wins.

[Farix]

Novakaine, on 14 July 2013 - 07:37 PM, said:

More than one match where people were so pissed off they resorted to team killing in frustration.
So PGI let do something about this okay?
I know my frustration is high.

Yes, report the TKers so that PGI can ban them. That is how it should be handled. Otherwise, the mode is working as intended.

[Circles End]

Gierling, on 14 July 2013 - 11:37 PM, said:

People force me to cut short the thing I'm actually paying to enjoy (The fighting) so in principle I despise and revile those people, even if they are on my own team. Moreover they are ruining the game experience for something utterly arbitrary and meaningless (Cbills, XP, a little screen that says they are winners)

Ok. I will immediately stop having fun by outmaneuvering the enemy team and having merry chases in my light 'mech and submit to being killed by my assault class overlords.
If I'm not allowed to try outmaneuvering the enemy and strike at their exposed weaknesses, such as an undefended base, please do enlighten me on the purpose of the SDR-5K

(Warning: This post may or may not contain sporadic traces of sarcasm)

[Tombstoner]

Sorry that the enemy doesn't play fair. you clearly stated why your loosing and why people cap. some people like myself dont play for monetary rewards. when i play my spider you bet your ars im headed strait for your base. at 150 mph i'll be capping it in under 90 seconds. your job to stop me. in fact is my pug is getting its but caved in a cap is the best chance i'll have for a win and i play to win not for cash.