464 replies to this topic

[Belorion]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2013 - 11:14 AM, said:

The thing is, most of the complaints about LRMs for example are terribad. From experience, I know it's not as bad as people say it is... on the other hand I have been blown up by LRMs due to a confluence of other factors (UAV, being surrounded, etc.) it makes LRMs more effective than it normally would. Mind you, this is entirely subjective, but I have context to what I'm seeing happen. At the lower levels of play, most of the players at that level don't know any better...

The main problem with LRMs (I am pretty sure) is the boating aspect. Perhaps the new Heat Penalties once they are refined will help address the situation.

but they aren't tragic right now. I don't own any mechs that can boat LRMs to the point they are OP (some stalkers, highlanders, and awesome) I own a few mechs that can boat them to the point they are ok. I own a lot of missile carrying mechs that shouldn't use LRMs at all, and even though a few Atlases can boat them effectively, there are much better load outs for something as heavy as the Atlas.

Edited by Belorion, 17 July 2013 - 11:24 AM.

[MechFrog1]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

Throwing an eTantrum does less for the game than not offering constructive criticism. Real issues get buried while inflammatory posts turn non-issues into issues that the dev team may have to deal with when it wasn't a real issue in the first place.

Take jump sniping for example. It was never a "problem" in that it was uncounterable. Its only problem was its FOTMiness. This problem would have most likely solved itself. However, now they have introduced a mechanic that makes pop-tarting harder to do. The people that were really good at it, can still do it. All they really did was counter the FOTMiness about poptarting. It was time, energy, and money spent on a task that would have corrected itself over time. When they could have been fixing real issues like the hit detection problem.

Another example is the real bug I submitted about the Heat System which quickly got burried under mountains of QQ threads about the new heat system. Anyone with two brain cells should realize that PGI will further flesh out the system as time goes on, and fix things like the LL ERLL loop hole. Their data will immediately point out that people are still using alphas with them. No complaining needed.

When you feel your game is challenged, pick one or more of the following:

• Belittle the criticism as whining
  
• Reaffirm the capability of the dev team
  
• Use a variation of, "They've already got it fixed on an internal patch. It will be fixed by launch."
  
• Claim there isn't a problem
  
• "It's still beta, give them time."

4 out of 5 ain't bad. Would you like to edit your post to make it a full set?

[Belorion]

mint frog, on 17 July 2013 - 11:36 AM, said:

When you feel your game is challenged, pick one or more of the following:

• Belittle the criticism as whining
  
• Reaffirm the capability of the dev team
  
• Use a variation of, "They've already got it fixed on an internal patch. It will be fixed by launch."
  
• Claim there isn't a problem
  
• "It's still beta, give them time."

4 out of 5 ain't bad. Would you like to edit your post to make it a full set?

Most people complaining are here complaining because they can't cope with the fact that they lost for some reason. I don't have that problem, so I don't have to grasp at straws as to why the "game is bad"...

I like the game, I enjoy it, if I see something wrong I state so in the forums, but I don't get my panties in a bunch when I do.

and ultimately I don't care what the people on the other side of the fence from me think of me or the game, but I also don't want the forums to be filled up 100% with their QQ, or PGI might listen. In short, I don't want people who can't play a game competitively without blaming the game for their own short comings to ruin the game I enjoy.

[Kattspya]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Most people complaining are here complaining because they can't cope with the fact that they lost for some reason. I don't have that problem, so I don't have to grasp at straws as to why the "game is bad"...

I like the game, I enjoy it, if I see something wrong I state so in the forums, but I don't get my panties in a bunch when I do.

and ultimately I don't care what the people on the other side of the fence from me think of me or the game, but I also don't want the forums to be filled up 100% with their QQ, or PGI might listen. In short, I don't want people who can't play a game competitively without blaming the game for their own short comings to ruin the game I enjoy.

So people shouldn't selfishly advocate for the game they want to play because you selfishly want to play another game? That doesn't sound like double standards at all.

Edited by Kattspya, 17 July 2013 - 11:48 AM.

[Belorion]

Kattspya, on 17 July 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

So people shouldn't selfishly advocate for the game they want to play because you selfishly want to play another game? That doesn't sound like double standards at all.

I don't mind if they advocate at all. They should think about doing it without all the QQ, eTantrum throwing, and general rabble rousing that they employ.

If a lot of people don't share their opinion then they may just have to learn to deal with it.

Like I said above, I disagree with the current way that drops are divided between pugs and pre-mades, but I don't come on here on a daily bases ranting about what a crappy game this is because of it. There are people that like the way it is now. There are some that would like to ban groups entirely. Everyone has the right to their opinion, that doesn't make PGI a terrible company for not doing everything they want.

I liked MW4, but that game was way worse than MWO in just about every aspect, but I still played it for what it was without sending death threats to the developers.

People want to offer constructive criticism? Knock yourself out.
People want to rant and rave about what a crappy game this is? Take it some place else.
Attack people for liking the game when you don't... that's just straight up immaturity.

[WarHippy]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Most people complaining are here complaining because they can't cope with the fact that they lost for some reason. I don't have that problem, so I don't have to grasp at straws as to why the "game is bad"...

I like the game, I enjoy it, if I see something wrong I state so in the forums, but I don't get my panties in a bunch when I do.

and ultimately I don't care what the people on the other side of the fence from me think of me or the game, but I also don't want the forums to be filled up 100% with their QQ, or PGI might listen. In short, I don't want people who can't play a game competitively without blaming the game for their own short comings to ruin the game I enjoy.

So like Hammerreborn your argument is that everyone only complains because they are bad and should just shutup and learn2play. Seems like a good way to win people over.

You see I like the game as well, but I think the new heat system is poorly implemented and I think taking damage when shutdown after overheat is pretty silly and honestly feels bad. I want them to come up with a better option, I want them to not pick arbitrary numbers like being able to only fire 2 LL without penalty, and I want them to do things that are not overly ambiguous.

[Belorion]

WarHippy, on 17 July 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

So like Hammerreborn your argument is that everyone only complains because they are bad and should just shutup and learn2play. Seems like a good way to win people over.

You see I like the game as well, but I think the new heat system is poorly implemented and I think taking damage when shutdown after overheat is pretty silly and honestly feels bad. I want them to come up with a better option, I want them to not pick arbitrary numbers like being able to only fire 2 LL without penalty, and I want them to do things that are not overly ambiguous.

Your argument as presented there is fine. However you have to understand that not everyone may feel that way. I like heat as a limiting factor. It feels very Battletechy to me. I like negative ramifications to over heating. I think it makes the game more dynamic.

So we will just have to agree to disagree. Your argument (as presented in that post) makes you no more a part of the doom and gloom cloud as my argument makes me a white knight.

[WarHippy]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Your argument as presented there is fine. However you have to understand that not everyone may feel that way. I like heat as a limiting factor. It feels very Battletechy to me. I like negative ramifications to over heating. I think it makes the game more dynamic.

So we will just have to agree to disagree. Your argument (as presented in that post) makes you no more a part of the doom and gloom cloud as my argument makes me a white knight.

I understand that not everyone feels that way, but I am not going around telling people that they suck and should learn2play when I disagree with them like you did in your post that I quoted. You even said in a post after that "Attack people for liking the game when you don't... that's just straight up immaturity." You should probably think about your choice of words a little more carefully, or you might look like a hypocrite.

As for the heat I like it as a limiting factor as well. I like negative ramifications for overheating as well, and shutting down is fine as is taking extra damage when you override. What I don't like is when you shutdown and take damage. It doesn't feel very good and can lead to confusion for people that don't know the mechanic. I also don't like the new heat system where they seemingly came up with random weapon amounts before you take extra heat penalties. Only being able to fire 2 LL or 6 ML is just strange to me. Only 2 PPC is fine except on mechs that are meant to fire more like the Awesome so maybe they can do something about that, but just throwing this awkward system onto the live server when they now have a test server seems stupid.

[Belorion]

WarHippy, on 17 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

I understand that not everyone feels that way, but I am not going around telling people that they suck and should learn2play when I disagree with them like you did in your post that I quoted. You even said in a post after that "Attack people for liking the game when you don't... that's just straight up immaturity." You should probably think about your choice of words a little more carefully, or you might look like a hypocrite.

I don't attack people for simply disagreeing with me.

WarHippy, on 17 July 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

As for the heat I like it as a limiting factor as well. I like negative ramifications for overheating as well, and shutting down is fine as is taking extra damage when you override. What I don't like is when you shutdown and take damage. It doesn't feel very good and can lead to confusion for people that don't know the mechanic. I also don't like the new heat system where they seemingly came up with random weapon amounts before you take extra heat penalties. Only being able to fire 2 LL or 6 ML is just strange to me. Only 2 PPC is fine except on mechs that are meant to fire more like the Awesome so maybe they can do something about that, but just throwing this awkward system onto the live server when they now have a test server seems stupid.

I will agree with you there... the weapon counts do seem somewhat arbitrary. They should have picked a damage value and applied the same heat penalty to any weapon that was boated above that level.

However, I didn't agree that anything needed to be done about boating in the first place. I haven't even tried out the Stalker (the root of many of the boating "problems") but my normal view is that unless all tactics, and counters have been explored then it isn't a problem with the game, but rather one of public opinion and lack of time to mature. Which is why I usually say that PGI knows better what weapons are OP than we do. Everyone may be using PPC's, but are they really OP? I am not as sure. I have torn apart more than one PPC stalker boat because they can't do anything to me when I get close to them, while on the flip side, I only ever got two shot once by a PPC stalker boat. Did they need this heat nerf in the first place? Meh... however the heat nerf isn't all that bad since everyone is subjected to the same rules. If it helps balance then so be it, if not then they can always adjust it down the road. Balance isn't the great golden game mechanic that some claim it to be. As long as we all have access to everything then its balanced. If everyone is using the same weapon then something should be adjusted to be sure, but in the interim that doesn't make the game bad, or broken.

To me MWO is fun to play. The movement is good. Survivability could use a buff. Hit detection could use some help. But all in all its a good game. I don't feel this way just because I really like Mechwarrior. I really like Warhammer 40K, but the games that came out for that were terrible (IMO). I didn't go cry on their forums because of it, I just stopped playing them.

[WarHippy]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

I don't attack people for simply disagreeing with me.

"Most people complaining are here complaining because they can't cope with the fact that they lost for some reason. I don't have that problem, so I don't have to grasp at straws as to why the "game is bad"..."
" In short, I don't want people who can't play a game competitively without blaming the game for their own short comings to ruin the game I enjoy."
Both of those are statements you made in the post I quoted both are examples of you effectively saying that they are wrong because they suck and you are better than them. If you can't see that as an attack on others you disagree with then you are deluding yourself.

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

To me MWO is fun to play. The movement is good. Survivability could use a buff. Hit detection could use some help. But all in all its a good game. I don't feel this way just because I really like Mechwarrior. I really like Warhammer 40K, but the games that came out for that were terrible (IMO). I didn't go cry on their forums because of it, I just stopped playing them.

Perhaps if you had "cried" on their forums the games would have been made into something you liked and you would still be playing them. Is it so wrong for people to hope for some changes that make sense and don't feel like garbage, and voice their frustrations when things change they don't like, or is your new argument that if people don't like it they should just leave?

Would it have made sense to have people test this new heat system on the test server when they were testing 12v12 instead of putting it live in a very rough form?

[Belorion]

WarHippy, on 17 July 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

"Most people complaining are here complaining because they can't cope with the fact that they lost for some reason. I don't have that problem, so I don't have to grasp at straws as to why the "game is bad"..."
" In short, I don't want people who can't play a game competitively without blaming the game for their own short comings to ruin the game I enjoy."
Both of those are statements you made in the post I quoted both are examples of you effectively saying that they are wrong because they suck and you are better than them. If you can't see that as an attack on others you disagree with then you are deluding yourself.

I didn't attack anyone there. If people get angry with my general statement, then maybe they have a fear that what I said was true.

I also never claimed that I am a better player than anyone... I just don't blame the game for what is my fault. Just yesterday I was in a drop where someone was complaining about the game. I said something along the lines of maybe "My little pony was more their speed" now granted that was an attack and I shouldn't have said it, but I was tired of their tirade scrolling across the screen while I was playing. (They were on my team, so it wasn't a valid distraction technique.)

I ended up dieing from an LRM barrage, they said something like "I guess that wasn't the games fault" to which I replied "Sure wasn't. It was my fault for getting caught in the open."

[Chronojam]

Azzras, on 26 June 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

Ummmm...don't play anymore?

Azzras, on 28 June 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Request a refund if you don't like it.

Azzras, on 16 July 2013 - 10:02 AM, said:

Can I have your stuff?

Azzras, on 17 July 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

I've been here longer than you.
The only thing I HATE about this game is the forums.
It is things like your post that drive people away. Completely non-constructive and hostile.
If you want to know what's wrong with this game, look in the mirror.

Azzras, on 17 July 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

You're right.
Why would I or anyone else subject themselves to the venom on these forums.
Let PGI know that you and your kind are the reason that people leave this game.

This is a pretty awful attitude and is no way to build a healthy community.

[Chronojam]

WarHippy, on 17 July 2013 - 01:12 PM, said:

Perhaps if you had "cried" on their forums the games would have been made into something you liked and you would still be playing them. Is it so wrong for people to hope for some changes that make sense and don't feel like garbage, and voice their frustrations when things change they don't like, or is your new argument that if people don't like it they should just leave?

Posting seriously, you've hit the nail on the head. Skepticism is met with denial, goalpost-shifting, baseless affirmations of a quality development workflow, and insinuations that dissenters should simply leave because they cannot appreciate the brilliance that got us to this bad situation in the first place.

[WarHippy]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I didn't attack anyone there. If people get angry with my general statement, then maybe they have a fear that what I said was true.

No, you didn't attack any one person your "general statement" just attacked everyone that disagrees with you, and now you insinuate with more passive aggressive nonsense that people just must be afraid. So I think at this point it is safe to say you are both a hypocrite and delusional.

[Windies]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I didn't attack anyone there. If people get angry with my general statement, then maybe they have a fear that what I said was true.

I also never claimed that I am a better player than anyone... I just don't blame the game for what is my fault. Just yesterday I was in a drop where someone was complaining about the game. I said something along the lines of maybe "My little pony was more their speed" now granted that was an attack and I shouldn't have said it, but I was tired of their tirade scrolling across the screen while I was playing. (They were on my team, so it wasn't a valid distraction technique.)

I ended up dieing from an LRM barrage, they said something like "I guess that wasn't the games fault" to which I replied "Sure wasn't. It was my fault for getting caught in the open."

Ambivalence doesn't absolve you of your hypocritical and offensive/delusional statements about both the state of the game and those seeking to provide valid feedback about the state of the game.

[MechFrog1]

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

Most people complaining are here complaining because they can't cope with the fact that they lost for some reason.

Actually, I think most people who aren't happy are here to try and make the game better. The ideas they have may even be worse than what PGI has done in this patch, but at least they're trying. Simply nodding in approval of whatever PGI does doesn't make the game any better.

Belorion, on 17 July 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

I didn't attack anyone there. If people get angry with my general statement, then maybe they have a fear that what I said was true.

You attack people by saying they're only not happy because they lost a game, then attack them for defending themselves by calling them 'scared' of what you say. Do you actually read what you write out?

Edited by mint frog, 17 July 2013 - 04:26 PM.

[Lonestar1771]

Just as a refresher for those who think the forums are terrible... They weren't always this way. In CB people were polite and open to suggestions. People gave good feedback for PGI to peruse. Where it went wrong was PGI started getting cute and stopped listening to the community. Then they went OB waaaay too soon and now you have a broken game with a broken forum with a broken community heading towards a launch that seems like it will be nothing more than an advertising ploy. PGIGP went cycle on the suck.

[Zanathan]

So I maybe too naive but is there going to be another patch before the end of July .. or is this it?

[Dart Nimrod]

The main advantage of AWS-8R (4xLRM15 build) was its ability to launch all missiles in one tight cluster, so I just wonder, was this patch dedicated to cut down specifically this build, or all missile and energy boats at once? Plus I don't remember any analog of this blasted "heat scale addition" system in any part of Mechwarrior... so all these innovations looks at least rediculous, if not to say idiotically. Any way, this game, with every similar patch, more and more becoming look like "Gangnam Style Theater of Absurd", stuffed with "true balance" and "socialistic realism".

[Dart Nimrod]

Lonestar1771, on 17 July 2013 - 04:55 PM, said:

Just as a refresher for those who think the forums are terrible... They weren't always this way. In CB people were polite and open to suggestions. People gave good feedback for PGI to peruse. Where it went wrong was PGI started getting cute and stopped listening to the community. Then they went OB waaaay too soon and now you have a broken game with a broken forum with a broken community heading towards a launch that seems like it will be nothing more than an advertising ploy. PGIGP went cycle on the suck.

I hope you speak the truth, because it's pretty hard to find truth in this mess these days.