461 replies to this topic

[Mowmentous]

This is a horrible, artificial solution to the boating alpha strike problem. A much simpler, more elegant solution would be to have convergence accuracy decrease as heat gets higher, maybe starting at 40 or 50%. This would have the dual effect of spreading damage from alpha strikes, and causing players to watch their heat more carefully.
Epic Fail.

[Tsenado]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 16 July 2013 - 05:17 PM, said:

In mech3 you could alpha dual ac/20 3 times before you nuked your mech. we now have the same system here. This system is nothing new, is certainly usperior to mech4's player hand holding, and is far from over the top punishing.

But it is OK to have 2xPPC + 2xERPPC or PPCs + ERPPCs + Gauss Rifle combo, sniping at long range without exposing yourself and no penalities.

Wow that AC40 Jagger has 5 kills in that game! You should check out his last few games, where he got owned by PPCs and LRMs because he exposed himself due to slowly crawling to his enemies' face.

Edited by Tsenado, 17 July 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Bloody Moon]

Kyocera, on 17 July 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Come meet my Highlander on the battlefield. I'll embarass you so hard you'll throw your computer out the window son.

Considering the chance meeting another specific player in the solo queue is extremely low, i guess you are willing to gather some folks for a sync 8man to back up your words with action.

Unless you are all talk that is.

[VagGR]

Tsenado, on 17 July 2013 - 07:06 AM, said:

But it is OK to have 2xPPC + 2xERPPC or PPCs + ERPPCs + Gauss Rifle combo, sniping at long range without exposing yourself and no penalities.

Wow that AC40 Jagger has 5 kills in that game! You should check out his last few games, where he got owned by PPCs and LRMs because he exposed himself due to slowly crawling to his enemies' face.

PPC and ERPPC are to be considered the same weapon in the heat scale system but this will be implemented on the 30th.

[Tsenado]

VagGR, on 17 July 2013 - 07:13 AM, said:

PPC and ERPPC are to be considered the same weapon in the heat scale system but this will be implemented on the 30th.

Even with 2 variants of PPC + Gauss Rifle, you are still sniping at long range without exposing yourself and no penalities.

[eadipus]

Kyocera, on 17 July 2013 - 06:50 AM, said:

Come meet my Highlander on the battlefield. I'll embarass you so hard you'll throw your computer out the window son.

Get your head out of the Alpha/PPC Warrior clouds and you might just find more successful and enjoyable builds to play. Just because everyone else equips this or that, doesn't mean you have to. Adapt and accept the change instead of looking at ways to circumvent it and you might just be the highest scoring player in almost every match like I currently am.

Calm down; I run a lot of different builds, some alpha based, some DPS based and some just for fun. My favourite mech currently is a 4x AC2 Jager as I love the noise it makes. I used my Highlander as an example as I took it out for a spin last night on a hot map and still did very well with it with minimal changes. I don't disagree with what PGI are trying to do I just don't think this is the right way to do it.
Also worth pointing out that damage is not a good measure of how well you did, taking arms off of an SRM/ML Centurion for example will get you a lot of damage for little to no gain; part of the power of the alpha builds is putting 30-40 damage on a section in the second that its exposed before your target torso twists it out of LOS.

[flaser]

Am I seeing things or do PPCs actually get a bigger penalty than ERPPCs? Why penalize a weapon (PPC) when it already has so many drawbacks (great heat, non-hitscan behaviour, minimum range)?

Also "merging" the two PPCs variants heat-vise seems like a bone-headed decision, as it'd make the ERPPC a superior weapon all around. Right now, PPCs are a choice for builds that try to maximize *sustained* firepower, instead maximum alpha at the expense of range.

BTW, I'm fine with the 2 alpha limit on normal and ER PPCs, it just strikes me incredulous that the weapon with lesser heat buildup would be more penalized.

[LastPaladin]

Gulinborsti, on 16 July 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

No mech is intended to fire 3+ PPCs or 7+ MLs at the same time ... without punishment

"ANH-1E - This field-expedient refit was used by the Dragoons after the Battle of Misery. All of the autocannons were removed and replaced with four PPCs and two additional Medium Lasers. The ANH-1E also carried forty-one heat sinks, enough to fire the main weapons continually. BV (2.0) = 1,625^[4]"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator

The standard heat is the punishment, and always has been.

[Tsenado]

4x AC2s were never easy to manage, they create a lot of heat before this patch.

"But AC2s are the strongest weapon in the game!"

Yes you are right, if you stay on the target the whole time, if your target aren't moving they deserve to get owned anyway.

these AC2s and AC20s creates a lot of heat AND requires ammo (please quote the ammo part) before this patch, were they really that great and needed the heat adjustments for them? I fail to see that personally.

[Milocinia]

LastPaladin, on 17 July 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

"ANH-1E - This field-expedient refit was used by the Dragoons after the Battle of Misery. All of the autocannons were removed and replaced with four PPCs and two additional Medium Lasers. The ANH-1E also carried forty-one heat sinks, enough to fire the main weapons continually. BV (2.0) = 1,625^[4]"

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Annihilator

The standard heat is the punishment, and always has been.

Continually does not = constant alpha firing. Chain firing is a wonderful feature and works very well when firing "continually". Again, stop thinking alpha all the time.

Bloody Moon, on 17 July 2013 - 07:12 AM, said:

Considering the chance meeting another specific player in the solo queue is extremely low, i guess you are willing to gather some folks for a sync 8man to back up your words with action.

Unless you are all talk that is.

100% pugger and always will be

[VagGR]

Tsenado, on 17 July 2013 - 07:17 AM, said:

Even with 2 variants of PPC + Gauss Rifle, you are still sniping at long range without exposing yourself and no penalities.

true...but 30-35 dmg is managable...we had dual gauss builds for so long and no one complained. its 40+ dmg that became a problem

[John Mechlane]

Can someone please explain to me what exactly does the 1.0 multiplier means at SRMs?
I assume it means + 1 x baseheat...right?

[Bloody Moon]

Kyocera, on 17 July 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

100% pugger and always will be

Even a pugger can gather some folks from the unofficial MWO Teamspeak servers to organize a proper 1v1, so that's an excuse.

Maybe you shouldn't trash talk if you have no intention to back it up with something other than words.

[LastPaladin]

Kyocera, on 17 July 2013 - 07:38 AM, said:

Continually does not = constant alpha firing. Chain firing is a wonderful feature and works very well when firing "continually".

Continous chain fire and continuous alpha fire are effectively the same thing. You're firing as fast as your recycle speed, so it doesn't matter how you are grouping the weapons, the heat generated is exactly the same.

[Tsenado]

VagGR, on 17 July 2013 - 07:41 AM, said:

true...but 30-35 dmg is managable...we had dual gauss builds for so long and no one complained. its 40+ dmg that became a problem

My argument starts with the 2xAC20s. Any type of sniping is happening from a long distance and can be done with very small or no penalities, while the AC20s getting the biggest hits with heat adjustments at face slapping range and no work around to it (there is no ER AC20s here) at the moment.

Gauss were fixed actually, they were used way more often back in the days.

[JohnnyWayne]

flaser, on 17 July 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

Also "merging" the two PPCs variants heat-vise seems like a bone-headed decision, as it'd make the ERPPC a superior weapon all around.

It is as long as you can deal with its heat. I can't with my dps build. It is more pnalized because it creates less heat.

[Gierling]

It is arbitrary, that is the most scandalous thing about it. It represents yet another mechanic which new players could NEVER figure out on their own and the fact that it relies on a data table makes it unintuitive. It should be removed and the Heat on problem weapons should be adjusted directly.

[VagGR]

Tsenado, on 17 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

My argument starts with the 2xAC20s. Any type of sniping is happening from a long distance and can be done with very small or no penalities, while the AC20s getting the biggest hits with heat adjustments at face slapping range and no work around to it (there is no ER AC20s here) at the moment.

Gauss were fixed actually, they were used way more often back in the days.

well you also have to take into consideration the base heat. dual ac20=12 heat, 3PPC=24 heat...so yeah the ac40 had lass range and you had to facehug but it was pretty heat efficient..

[Tsenado]

VagGR, on 17 July 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

well you also have to take into consideration the base heat. dual ac20=12 heat, 3PPC=24 heat...so yeah the ac40 had lass range and you had to facehug but it was pretty heat efficient..

all that would make sense if AC20s aren't require ammo (less weight and space for heatsinks), close range (exposes your chassis to your enemies), creates decent amount of heat (2xAC20s Jagger do shutdown often), heavy weapons (make it a slow mech), and probably more downside, into it's consideration, making AC20s aren't that great of a weapon to start with.

while the PPC snipers are safe to shutdown at long range, these Jaggers are putting themselves at a risk trying to make a kill.

[Too Much Love]

Played today, didnt see any great difference, but it seems that there are more brawling. So its good.

Generally, I support PGI efforts to adjust the balance in the game and stop "one shot-one kill" strategy. Heat scaling isnt that brilliant idea, but nobody suggested any better.

But - and I hope guys from PGI will hear that - there are two main issues:

1) Who asked to nerf LL? Plz, make max LL alpha at least 3, or even better 4.

2) Streaks were nerfed so many times, that its absolutely worthless weapon now. At least buff it like SRMs.

I hope You will do that. It will solve a lot of problems, really.