39 replies to this topic

[Ryokens leap]

There should be relaxed heat rules for Solarice type play but in a military campain( which is what CW is meant to be) sustainability is key. Not knowing if reinforcements, rearm and repair are coming to your aid and having a balanced build with energy backups for ballistics/missles and heat management that doesn't allow you to blow yourself up will be very important. No sane person would take a 40 Jag or an LRM boat with no energy back up on a planetary invasion. Lets play it out for a while then we can see what tweaking needs to be done.

[RetroActive]

Just tested the AC40 Jager on the testing grounds (frozen city) and it definitely runs hotter, but not unusable hotness. I could still alpha a few times before shutting down. You people really need to learn to try things out before panicking......

[xDeityx]

RetroActive, on 16 July 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

You people really need to learn to try things out before panicking......

You must be new here.

[Braggart]

FupDup, on 16 July 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

The meta is most likely going to shift to 2 ERPPC + Gauss, which suffers no penalties. The change doesn't stop the fact that alpha striking is superior, it merely makes alpha strikers modify their loadouts a little bit.


Nice try though. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

fantastic. Guess why. PPC and Guass are very different in travel times. Which will result in bad players missing with 1 or the other, and good players hitting 2 different locations against a moving opponent.

What now?

[FupDup]

Braggart, on 16 July 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

What now?

People still alpha-strike all day long, but with slightly different or identical loadouts.

[KuruptU4Fun]

FupDup, on 16 July 2013 - 10:50 AM, said:

People still alpha-strike all day long, but with slightly different or identical loadouts.

That though will never change, hasn't since the days of TT till now.

[Hexenhammer]

FupDup, on 16 July 2013 - 10:33 AM, said:

The meta is most likely going to shift to 2 ERPPC + Gauss, which suffers no penalties. The change doesn't stop the fact that alpha striking is superior, it merely makes alpha strikers modify their loadouts a little bit.


Nice try though. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.

Exactly. That's why this a patch and not a fix.

[Roland]

Braggart, on 16 July 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:

fantastic. Guess why. PPC and Guass are very different in travel times. Which will result in bad players missing with 1 or the other, and good players hitting 2 different locations against a moving opponent.

What now?

While the difference in travel time may seem like it matters, it's actually quite minimal in its observed impact in actual usage.

Consider that, generally, the average range for firing them is maybe 600m, and the speed difference is only 800 m/s, that means that it takes the PPC 0.3 seconds to get there, while it takes the gauss 0.5 seconds. A difference of only 0.2 seconds.

If a mech is moving at, say, 100kph, that's moving at around 28 meters per second. So, in 0.2 seconds, it's only moved 5 meters.... Which really isn't much at all. Generally, not enough to cause you to spread damage.

[Braggart]

Roland, on 16 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

While the difference in travel time may seem like it matters, it's actually quite minimal in its observed impact in actual usage.

Consider that, generally, the average range for firing them is maybe 600m, and the speed difference is only 800 m/s, that means that it takes the PPC 0.3 seconds to get there, while it takes the gauss 0.5 seconds. A difference of only 0.2 seconds.

If a mech is moving at, say, 100kph, that's moving at around 28 meters per second. So, in 0.2 seconds, it's only moved 5 meters.... Which really isn't much at all. Generally, not enough to cause you to spread damage.

Wow yer maths good, only your gameplay isnt. Nobody fires guass and PPC together on any long range shot at a moving target. If someone is standing still sure go for it.

But PPC and Guass will require you to aim them both. Your post admits it, that 5 meters is the difference between hitting that CT or the left torso/arm.

Anyone rolling with PPC/Gauss combo know that damage gets spread around a little more than straight PPC builds.

Edited by Braggart, 16 July 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Sable Dove]

WolvesX, on 16 July 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

btw. its also bad desinged.

Oh, if only they had never removed the sing from the system!

[NinetyProof]

It's fine .. move along.

To Complicated? Really? Hmm ... let's see:

Don't Boat These Weapons ... X, Y or Z ... otherwise your head might ASSpload.

Hmm ... seems pretty simple to me. Wait? you want to theory craft and crunch numbers? And your complaining about this fairly simple formula? I don't think the issue is the formula ... I think the issue is you.

If you can't take the HEAT ... stay out of the Boat (err .. Kitchen).

[FupDup]

KuruptU4Fun, on 16 July 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:

That though will never change, hasn't since the days of TT till now.

In TT, alpha strikes didn't allocate damage into a single location and most mechs didn't come stock with enough heat sinks to handle repeated alpha striking.

[WolvesX]

ALSO:

I'm free to play player from now on.

[NinetyProof]

Roland, on 16 July 2013 - 10:53 AM, said:

If a mech is moving at, say, 100kph, that's moving at around 28 meters per second. So, in 0.2 seconds, it's only moved 5 meters.... Which really isn't much at all. Generally, not enough to cause you to spread damage.

Assumption 1: You were not moving

Assumption 2: Their torso is not twisting in any direction (as that add speed)

Assumption 2: You actually aimed at the *best* part of a section of the mech that helped to minimize the movement / twist speed. (ie: You aimed at the CT left most part so that the PPC landed on the left side of the CT and the Guass landed on the right side of the CT).

Do you see how ridiculous all that is? The reality is that PPC / Guass Alpha's rarely hit the same section of the armor unless that section is *huge* ... as in barn door. If that is the case, then a .5 second delay in alpha striking would likewise hit that same section so the entire argument is moot.

2 PPC + Guass is fine ...

[Lord Perversor]

RetroActive, on 16 July 2013 - 10:47 AM, said:

Just tested the AC40 Jager on the testing grounds (frozen city) and it definitely runs hotter, but not unusable hotness. I could still alpha a few times before shutting down. You people really need to learn to try things out before panicking......

Wait WHAT and leave the forum trollage NO WAY!!!

[Felicitatem Parco]

WolvesX, on 16 July 2013 - 10:27 AM, said:

Sad day for MWO.

btw. its also bad desinged.

and compicated

and... no i have to stop here.

There is a dedicated Feedback Thread for discussing the general concept of the Heat Penalty system here: http://mwomercs.com/...pdate-feedback/

That is exactly where this sort of feedback should go. If you have gameplay-related feedback after patching and playing with the penalties, then you might want to go here to the Gameplay: Heat Scale feedback thread in the Patch Feedback section.

This thread is being jettisoned, however, because it was not started on a constructive tone and the title seems suspiciously like an attempt to disguise blatantly insulting terms...

Edited by Prosperity Park, 16 July 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Gallowglas]

In other news, the sky is falling. I'm not going to go outside and check. I just KNOW it is because reasons.

[Rippthrough]

Titan Osis, on 16 July 2013 - 10:31 AM, said:

No its good, it affects zero of my builds because they are all built around sustained firepower and heat efficiency because I don't play like an *****. It forces people to make good mech builds instead of being dumpsters that just boat weapons and try to alpha strike into oblivion over and over.

Super stoked they did it, good job PGI keep it up.

Dumbass, it does nothing.

[blinkin]

Titan Osis, on 16 July 2013 - 10:43 AM, said:

Please explain forum warrior, what is a good mech load out?

one that doesn't make any sense, but still WTFowns established cheese builds.

[Roland]

Acid Phase, on 16 July 2013 - 10:44 AM, said:

Ha, I'm going to have to accept this compliment. I pilot a well balanced build. A "bad" mech as you call it. Good for me that I haven't fallen under the one trick pony f*kcs out there who ride eachother's c*cks and copy builds for their point and click instant gratification. More respect to those well balanced builds out there. My hat's off to you. Well balanced = Skilled (they have to group weapons from 3-6 weapons groups if necessary)

I'm having a hard time associating skill with being incapable of recognizing what builds work well.

I mean, sure, if you run a terrible build and can still wreck heads, it means you're good... We used to run hillariously bad builds back in MW4 when playing against terrible opponents, just because it added some spice to the mix... like whole lances where every mech carried nothing but machine guns. Crap like that.

But if you run terrible builds, and you don't win, that doesn't mean you're skilled.

And if you voluntarily run terrible builds, and lose, you really shouldn't complain about it.. because you're doing it yourself. You're essentially just CHOOSING to lose, because you are running configurations which you aren't good enough to pilot.

A more reasonable approach is to point out imbalances in the game, but fully exploit those imbalances as much as possible. It's only through doing that, that the imbalances become obvious to PGI, and they get fixed.