57 replies to this topic

[Kekkone]

AC/2, Gauss, and ERLL have an unlisted heatscale multiplier according to Smurfy. At least the AC/2 penalty seems to be in effect according to this post:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2562797

If the effects listed on Smurfy are indeed correct, they are very strange considering that a gauss starts taking penalty from the first weapon fired.

[MustrumRidcully]

Thontor, on 16 July 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

That was my assumption as well...

Then again Paul did say the more weapons fired it would be an exponential increase... And that most certainly is not exponential.

He wouldn't be the first to name something exponential growth that isn't exponential growing. I am not sure if it's common among professional game designers, though.

[Bilbo]

Squarefox, on 16 July 2013 - 12:17 PM, said:

Alpha restriction for LRM15, but not for LRM10 and LRM20? Makes no sense to me...

My guess would be that people didn't tend to carry them as much as LRM15's. It's been a while, but it seems to me LRM20's were fairly hot and inefficient to boat at any rate.

[DirePhoenix]

So this is a heat ADDITIVE, not a MULTIPLIER? Another fine example of Canadian math?

[Squarefox]

Bilbo, on 16 July 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

My guess would be that people didn't tend to carry them as much as LRM15's. It's been a while, but it seems to me LRM20's were fairly hot and inefficient to boat at any rate.

This is game design from the darkest corners of hell, because it complete ignores the worlds own logic. The game designers that decided that crap should consider working in another job (I think _any_ other job would be better.)

[Syllogy]

The "Heat Multiplier" Is actually a number added to the heat generation of a weapon that has been fired over the max capacity. At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

Example: Jager fires 1 AC20 = 6pts of heat generation.

Jager Fires 2 AC20's = 6+(6+24) = 36pts of heat generation

[tayhimself]

Paul Inouye is that you?

[Devari]

Syllogy, on 16 July 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

The "Heat Multiplier" Is actually a number added to the heat generation of a weapon that has been fired over the max capacity. At least, that's how it's supposed to work.

Example: Jager fires 1 AC20 = 6pts of heat generation.

Jager Fires 2 AC20's = 6+(6+24) = 36pts of heat generation

Who is designing this game? How do they not know the difference between addition and multiplication? I mean, seriously, this is something an 8 year old could explain to them. Am I expecting too much here?

[Sprouticus]

ok so if it is heat additive:


1 LL = 7 heat
2 LL= 14 heat
3 LL= 23.8 heat (13% penalty)
4 LL = 33.6 (20% penalty)
5 LL = 43.4 (24% Penalty)

The amusing part is that the % penalty goes DOWN as you use more. Not that it matters really since by the time the % penalty gets low the # of weapons is absurdly high.

Edited by Sprouticus, 16 July 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[GingerBang]

And nobody believes me when i say PGI can't do basic arithmetic. They can't even do vocabulary. Seriously, ANY respectable game studio has a mathematician. It is pathetic that PGI does not, but then again if they refuse to admit they have made any mistake ever, i'm sure they also think their math and vocab is 100% accurate.

Edited by GingerBang, 16 July 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Sprouticus]

Devari, on 16 July 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Who is designing this game? How do they not know the difference between addition and multiplication? I mean, seriously, this is something an 8 year old could explain to them. Am I expecting too much here?

You can argue that is is a multiplier


Penalty = (multiplier * # of weapons fired over max)

so step off your high horse for a sec and relax,

[FrDrake]

Devari, on 16 July 2013 - 12:33 PM, said:

Who is designing this game? How do they not know the difference between addition and multiplication? I mean, seriously, this is something an 8 year old could explain to them. Am I expecting too much here?

I work in software engineering so I see what they're doing. It is a multiplier, on however many weapons were fired beyond the thresh hold. They just didn't explain it for which I have no idea why not. It really is no excuse not to just add 2 paragraphs with an example.

[MustrumRidcully]

I am sure UI 2.0 will make all this clear when the 3PV masses finally start playing this game. This is just Beta, after all.

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 16 July 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[tayhimself]

MustrumRidcully, on 16 July 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

I am sure UI 2.0 will make all this clear when the 3PV masses finally start playing this game. This is just Beta, after all.

Was > < close to not detecting the sarcasm

[blinkin]

TostitoBandito, on 16 July 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

No. They are marketing this as a competitive game. Players need to know how game systems function so they can optimize their play.

the word "competitive" has ruined so many good games.

[Sprouticus]

It is also possible that the penalty is multiplicative

+1 = Penalty
+2 = 2X Penalty
+3 = 3x penalty


so if you ran +2 you would actually get 6 'penalties' worth.

[Devari]

Sprouticus, on 16 July 2013 - 12:36 PM, said:

You can argue that is is a multiplier


Penalty = (multiplier * # of weapons fired over max)

so step off your high horse for a sec and relax,

Except that's not how they explained it. The basic operation they're using is addition here, so the heat generated is not multiplied by anything. Just because you can use a multiple of something, doesn't mean an addition to that value suddenly becomes a "multiplication". Sorry, but what you're saying is like having someone claim they're using an exponential scale, and then claiming the exponent is "1". It doesn't work like that, at least not if you know what you're talking about and are trying to convey a concept accurately.

[Syllogy]

Doesn't matter in the end, does it?

Heat Penalty is multiplied by the amount of weapons fired over the max capacity.

The term isn't technically wrong. It's not very clear either.

[Devari]

Syllogy, on 16 July 2013 - 12:56 PM, said:

Doesn't matter in the end, does it?

Heat Penalty is multiplied by the amount of weapons fired over the max capacity.

The term isn't technically wrong. It's not very clear either.

Sorry, but the term is listed as a "scale multiplier". That implies it's modifying a base value using multiplication. It's not, what it's doing is ADDING to the base heat value. It's like saying I'm "scaling" something by adding 5 cm to it's length while leaving the other dimensions unchanged, but I'm applying it to multiple objects, so therefore I'm "scaling" them all. That's just not accurate, no matter how you try to explain it the term is being used incorrectly. If a software developer doesn't understand what scaling means, they're going to convey the wrong message by using it to represent an additive penalty.

[xRatas]

Kaldor, on 16 July 2013 - 11:42 AM, said:

How many people do you think that actually play this game that are under the age of 25 actually know canon Battletech rules? Hell, Im 38, and Ive played all the Mechwarrior games, and I have 0 clue on some of them. I have to go check Sarna or something.

That was sarcasm. This completely crazy idea of balancing has nothing to do with TT game rules. So if someone actually knows the TT game, he'd be completely messed on guessing what the hell just happened to him.

And seems like my PPCs hurt stuff just like they did before, so at least the patch didn't do anything...