67 replies to this topic

[Ph30nix]

Prosperity Park, on 16 July 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

The Smurfy data is currently harvested directly off the XML files, which does not reflect actual gameplay.

For instance: there is no Single Gauss penalty, even though smurfy reports one. Please be wary about data that is harvested directly from XML files since there are factors outside the itemstats.xml that determine which values are used in-game and which values are ignored by the engine.

Please test in-game.

we have there is either a penalty or major bug

[Trev Firestorm]

AntharPrime, on 16 July 2013 - 04:07 PM, said:

So, they ninja nerfed the AC2 macro.

Except that you don't need a macro to do that, I'm so sick of ppl thinking that you need a macro to use the ac/2 machinegun.

[Hans Von Lohman]

Trev Firestorm, on 16 July 2013 - 06:28 PM, said:

Except that you don't need a macro to do that, I'm so sick of ppl thinking that you need a macro to use the ac/2 machinegun.

You don't, but the other thinking with the quad AC-2 build is more psychological and practical. The constant hammering by the shots will upset the pilot, and also rock his cockpit.

It is also fun to hear it.

I can program my mouse to do just that, but I don't. The only macro I use is a 20 second long toggle press for fire group 6 when I use a TAG laser (bound to the END key so I don't spam myself when I open chat).

[NRP]

I think this whole heat scale nerf is waay too aggressive. Running an energy build feels like an exercise in futility now.

Well anyway, I hope people are happy now.

[Kin3ticX]

i posted a video here in the patch feedback section
http://mwomercs.com/...ybe-ac5s-video/

triggering a wierd heat penalty with 2x ac2 and 2x ac5. Also 4x ac2.

I DO NOT use a Macro. I use my right and left mouse button slightly after the other.

[WhiskeySix]

Just ran my AC2 jager in tourmaline, holy heat death PGI, whats going on? something you want to tell us?

[Bishop Steiner]

Notice the same thing with 3+Medium and Medium Pulse lasers. I use TWO on my mech, zero problem. 3? Holy hell.

[Trev Firestorm]

Hans Von Lohman, on 16 July 2013 - 07:00 PM, said:

You don't, but the other thinking with the quad AC-2 build is more psychological and practical. The constant hammering by the shots will upset the pilot, and also rock his cockpit.

It is also fun to hear it.

I can program my mouse to do just that, but I don't. The only macro I use is a 20 second long toggle press for fire group 6 when I use a TAG laser (bound to the END key so I don't spam myself when I open chat).

errr Its like you were arguing with me but made the same point as me? I don't get it...

The no macro AC/2 machinegun tutorial, again: for 4x AC/2: all guns on mouse button 2; one gun on group 3; another on 4; another on 5; sweep fingers across buttons 3,4,5 (easiest if all set to mouse thumb buttons imo) then hold mouse 2; if timed correctly enjoy the dakka.

more on topic: Be sure to submit your support tickets, hopefully they'll be forced to hotfix this.

[HRR Insanity]

Prosperity Park, on 16 July 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

The Smurfy data is currently harvested directly off the XML files, which does not reflect actual gameplay.

For instance: there is no Single Gauss penalty, even though smurfy reports one. Please be wary about data that is harvested directly from XML files since there are factors outside the itemstats.xml that determine which values are used in-game and which values are ignored by the engine.

Please test in-game.

Sure would be nice if there was a source of information that would actually provide an up-to-date version of the in-game weapon statistics ...

Maybe that's something PGI would like to do? To allow people to actually test the game effectively?

Maybe?

[Enderman]

Clearly a bug, since if the system was working rpoperly, it wouldn't have been possible to get a heat penalty using only 3 AC2 (without the skill that reduces recycle time), because of the 0.5s recycle time, so you literally can't fire the first ac2 a second time within 0.5s to triggr a penalty, since 0.5s is the recycle time.

Edited by Enderman, 17 July 2013 - 12:38 AM.

[Jaykos]

Just tested this ingame to confirm its true. Disappointed I have to shelve my jager due to pgi's incompetence. One of the lowest alpha builds in the game nerfed to the ground. Seriously an 8 damage alpha is too much and needs to be nerfed? There really is no hope for this game to achieve balance with decisions like this being made.

[Nebelfeuer]

If fast fire triggers the heatpenalty while chainfiring then it needs to be fixed.
If the heatpenalty does only get triggered by violating the 0.5 sec by macro or manually chainfiring the weapons it is something that definitly should stay in game. other weapons are also not allowed to do that without penalty and it would open the game to all kinds of macrononsense if they where(eg 6x LL fired at 0.26sec intervall creating a constand overlapping stream of light without getting penalised)

[MeiSooHaityu]

I can't say I noticed it with my 3 A/C2 Hunchback.

[IceCase88]

Not to change the subject.... but... saying macros do not offer any advantage and are actually worse than doing it yourself is utter garbage. If they were worse than no one would use them. What would be the point? Exactly! No one would use a macro if they were worse than doing it yourself. Macros do offer an advantage and that is why they are used which is a cheat. Even using a macro to keep your TAG on is a cheat. PGI cannot do anything about them which is why they do nothing about them.

Back on topic... the heat buildup is very high for AC2s. I rarely use them but I have noticed the heat build up is extreme. Most ACs heat buildup is too high. I think they should institute some kind of UAC jam for the AC2 instead of the ridiculous heat buildup. Make the jam feature take effect when the heat buildup reaches a certain level or after a certain number of constant shots are done without a break.

[Rascula]

Dead right Ice, I have no sympathy for macro users complaining about anything, use your damn fingers like the rest of us!
That said if its a bug which it does indeed sound like i'm sure they'll hotfix it shortly. <And if they really have done it on purpose to screw the macro users I applaud that programer>

[Edwyndham]

Have a thread up about it in Patch Feedback as well http://mwomercs.com/...97#entry2566397

Even if you stagger fire two AC2 in two groups of 1 each it gives you this erratic heat buildup.

[VIPER2207]

JackAttack5, on 16 July 2013 - 12:07 PM, said:

Thirdly, it seems to be broken. Firing three AC2s together does not trigger the penalty, and rightly so. Firing three on a macro so that they each fire individually (ie. How chain fire should work but doesn't) triggers the penalty and causes huge heat spikes.

so you are using a macro (i.e. third-party-software) in a multiplayer-game? get rid of this, then you can come back and complain, cry, and do whatever you want....

[Ph30nix]

part of me thinks the problem has to do with the 0.5 second timer on the penalty.

so for medium lasers

fire 3 0.5 second starts
fire 3 more say after 0.4 seconds
timer resets
fire 2 more after 0.4 seconds
and you get a penalty even though you have not fired 6 beams within 0.5 seconds
when the penalty resets i think its still keeping the initial 3 shots fired in the equation.

so in say 1.5 seconds
0------------0.4--0.5----------0.8---1.0------------1.5
3------------3(6)--0------------2(8)--0---------------0

does that make sense? so by the end of your firing it still thinks you fired 8 beams withing 0.5 seconds even though you fired the last 2 0.8 seconds after the first 3.

[JackAttack5]

VIPER2207, on 17 July 2013 - 07:25 AM, said:

so you are using a macro (i.e. third-party-software) in a multiplayer-game? get rid of this, then you can come back and complain, cry, and do whatever you want....

Read the rest of the thread. It effects non-macro users. Even firing TWO AC2s spikes your heat.

PGI have said macro use is fine. All it does is circumvent the incredibly slow moving in-built chain fire, which clearly wasn't programmed with AC2 use in mind.

Care to tell me why macro use wouldn't be fine anyway? If you don't know what it does, it fires each AC2 after the last so that you are firing a more constant stream of rounds. That said, your overall rate of fire is lower than, or nearly equal to, simply firing the AC2s without a macro. And firing the AC2s with alphas spreads the damage over the target much less.

I use an AC2 macro because it's fun and sounds great. However it provides no advantage over non-macro users. More consistent screen shake on the target, yes, but I'd personally much rather take fire from a macro-using AC2 boat and deal with the shake than an AC2 boat that was using alphas and putting it's full 12DPS into my core with no spread.

I didn't want to turn this into a macro arguing thread (especially after PGI's statement that they accept it) but the vehement anti-macro opinions here are incomprehensible to me when there is no statistical advantage to them.

[Deathlike]

The algorithm for how the heat penalty is probably simplistic.

It would basically check to see how many weapons are fired, and if another one is fired while the .5 sec timer requirement has not passed yet, it would "add" the newly fired weapon as part of the "# of weapons fired", even if you physically do not have more than that weapon available.

Since you can stagger fire at least 2 AC2s under the .5 second requirement (because of its low .5 second cooldown) , it would inevitably trigger the heat penalty as consider all AC2 shots as 3, 4, 5, to X AC2 shots fired.

It has zero to do with Fast Fire... but Fast Fire does exacerbate the issue a little.

I hope this info is helpful to you.

Prosperity Park, on 16 July 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

The Smurfy data is currently harvested directly off the XML files, which does not reflect actual gameplay.

For instance: there is no Single Gauss penalty, even though smurfy reports one. Please be wary about data that is harvested directly from XML files since there are factors outside the itemstats.xml that determine which values are used in-game and which values are ignored by the engine.

Please test in-game.

If it was there before, smurfy has removed it. The AC2 penalty posted @ smurfy's according to all these complaints are real.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Edited by Deathlike, 17 July 2013 - 07:43 AM.