545 replies to this topic

[Aim64C]

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

So the system is benefitial and helps the meta, but it's bad because reasons?

Wow, you're a shining example of everything wrong with these forums.

Because it will create more problems than it solves.

Or did you pass reading comprehension on a curve?

If you would have read anything that I've said, rather than simply being a douche-o-matic, you would have realized that I stated this is only a temporary shift in the meta because of the change to SRMs and because people are over-reacting to the anti-PPC and Anti-AC20 changes.

And I'm not the only one who has started to figure this out:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2570226

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2571861

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2569194

Other problems have already been addressed by other individuals - such as 2PPC+AC20 Jaeger.

It can alpha -and- run cooler than an AC20 Jaeger with only half of the ammunition concern (and a weapon system that can reach out to range, as well).

What's the system going to do to address that?

Okay, fine. So you fix that.

AC20+2LPLSR.

But the meta will still shift back toward PPCs for energy 'boats.' They'll simply chain fire.

"But, Aim, that's diffuse damage, not all going to the same place."

So that's why they added heat to penalize the 6AC2 Jaeger? Never played the build, myself - but I saw some people tear the living hell out of things with it in a short order of time. A good chain-firing PPC build should be able to drop about 40-80 points of damage into you in a similar period of time that the 6AC2 Jaeger had exposed to opponents.

Not -quite- as effective, but still pretty damned devastating with the additional bonus of shearing off 20 points of armor or internals with each hit (rather than 2, or if you are using an alpha, 12).

But, like I said, time will show me correct. As it does more often than is good for my ego.

[3rdworld]

I don't know why people are saying the system was beneficial to the meta.

As far as I can tell, it didn't change anything.

[MustrumRidcully]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

I noticed only the LRM 15 is on the heat list Only the AC20. Why are the rest not affected by this stupid system?

I really don't know why the LRM15 was picked but not the others. Can't they be boated?

Besides the fact that their whole ECM and AMS system forces people to boat missiles anyway if they want to use them. No one is going to bring necessary support equipment like TAG for an "off-hand" missile launcher, and even if he would, he wouldn't get through AMS... While AMS against the LRM boater is almost meaningless.

I suppose it might just not be done yet and we'll see this happen eventually. I don't know, the numbers for the penalties don't make much sense to me, either.

[MasterErrant]

it doesn't do a damn thing but slow the game down negligably.

[hammerreborn]

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 03:07 PM, said:

So the system is benefitial and helps the meta, but it's bad because reasons?

Wow, you're a shining example of everything wrong with these forums.

Nicholas Carlyle, on 18 July 2013 - 03:10 PM, said:

Can you still not read? Something can do good short term and screw everything up long term. Although I disagree that it's good short term.

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Or did you pass reading comprehension on a curve?

DERP!

Edited by hammerreborn, 18 July 2013 - 03:59 PM.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

MasterErrant, on 18 July 2013 - 03:38 PM, said:

it doesn't do a damn thing but slow the game down negligably.

Stopped most of the High Alpha builds.
Not all of them. But most of them.

[Joseph Mallan]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

Because it will create more problems than it solves.

Or did you pass reading comprehension on a curve?

If you would have read anything that I've said, rather than simply being a douche-o-matic, you would have realized that I stated this is only a temporary shift in the meta because of the change to SRMs and because people are over-reacting to the anti-PPC and Anti-AC20 changes.

And I'm not the only one who has started to figure this out:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2570226

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2571861

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2569194

Other problems have already been addressed by other individuals - such as 2PPC+AC20 Jaeger.

So a new 40 point Pin Point Alpha with reach instead of one that has a limited range! Yeah... That is totally better

[Roland]

3rdworld, on 18 July 2013 - 03:34 PM, said:

I don't know why people are saying the system was beneficial to the meta.

As far as I can tell, it didn't change anything.

This is what I'm seeing...

I honestly have no real opinion regarding the change, because I'm not seeing it as positive or negative. I'm still running PPC's and Gauss, and it works exactly as it used to. Seems like everyone else is doing the same.

[hammerreborn]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

So a new 40 point Pin Point Alpha with reach instead of one that has a limited range! Yeah... That is totally better

If AC20 + 2ppc was better than ac40 than it would have been the meta before not after.

[Joseph Mallan]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Stopped most of the High Alpha builds.
Not all of them. But most of them.

Hasn't stopped any of my alpha builds with the exception of my Jager40... The lowest damage of all my builds!

The same

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

If AC20 + 2ppc was better than ac40 than it would have been the meta before not after.

Same amount of damage able to be pinned on one Pixel but No Penalty. But it is OK to use? Hypocrisy at its best sir.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Hasn't stopped any of my alpha builds with the exception of my Jager40... The lowest damage of all my builds!

The same
Same amount of damage able to be pinned on one Pixel but No Penalty. But it is OK to use? Hypocrisy at its best sir.

Long Range Pinpoint Alpha Builds?
Do these include 2 ERPPC 2 PPC builds which wont function on the 30th?
Because I bet that's exactly what your talking about, which makes what your talking about a total ******* moot point, sir.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 18 July 2013 - 04:11 PM.

[boomshekah]

It´s a good system, it works and it´s going to stay.
The silent majority has spoken, deal with it.

[hammerreborn]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Hasn't stopped any of my alpha builds with the exception of my Jager40... The lowest damage of all my builds!

The same
Same amount of damage able to be pinned on one Pixel but No Penalty. But it is OK to use? Hypocrisy at its best sir. <_<

Other than the fact that this has no basis in reality due to projectile speed differences, sure.

[Wintersdark]

Drehl, on 18 July 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

Don't give me that low elo BS. I'm frequently playing with and against most of the contest winners and a lot of guys that know how to hit lights with their high alpha pinpoint ctfs and hgns... so I guess I can't be that bad.

I never mentioned the hex stalker. It is and was a bad build. You know it, I know it and all the other good players know it.
Nevertheless the 4 ppcs resp. 2ppc/erppc stalker was (and the latter is) a very common build.

I think you misunderstood me.

I sincerely, honestly, was NOT trying to indirectly insult you or call you bad. I was not trying to imply anything other than what I said - people have been saying there were LOTS of 4-6PPC stalkers around. There are practically none beyond "moderately experienced" elo brackets, so I assumed that there simply weren't any. I hadn't considered that there may well be lots at the lower end of things.

I see some PPC stalkers - typically the 2-2 version - but certainly not what I'd call lots. So, my assumption was there's more lower down the ladder. I doubt there are many more up further than me; I don't claim to be outstanding, and I know I'm not at the top of the ladder, but I'm moderately high with several thousand drops. But the reality is that the PPC stalker at higher levels of play is certainly not a problem build.

Anyways, again: I absolutely did not intend to imply you were bad.

Quote

I never had that much trouble with ac40 jagers either. 3 well placed hits and they are gone.
But you are right in this one. the 2ppc/ac20 jager is more dangerous. and still runs hotter than the old ac40 jager.
Actually it was already a better build before the heatpatch.. I'm wondering why they weren't more common...

Symmetry. That's why I didn't run it. I'm obsessed with symmetry in my otherwise symmetrical looking mechs. *shrugs* Now my DD has that instead of 2AC20, and is more dangerous as a result. I've played around with such builds in the past, but they kind of make me twitchy. I'm getting over it now though, what with paired '20's being terrible.

Quote

Right. Most common gauss+ ppc, pure ppc/erppc. Pure ppc will be harder to make work now.

Why is boating bad? Because it is a much bigger nobrainer than everything else. As a light pilot I sometimes feel like the guy who brings a knife to an UT instagib match.

Better they fire or 2 different weapons with different projectile behavior than just one weapontype.

But really, this is only impacting PPC stalkers. And the poor 3PPC awesome pilots who try to so hard

Pretty much everyone else already ran Gauss/PPC's; and still do.

Worse, it's a very complicated system that's totally unintuitive and not communicated to users in any what at all. If users aren't on the forums, they'll have absolutely no clue what the **** is going on. It's awful

At least for me? The only significant loadout change is the people who've moved to srm's, but that has nothing to do with the heat changes.

[Joseph Mallan]

hammerreborn, on 18 July 2013 - 04:12 PM, said:

Other than the fact that this has no basis in reality due to projectile speed differences, sure.

Who's talking about reality? I am talking about the established physics of a game that has worked for 30 years and had Several Spin of Video games that never needed to use such a stupid "fix".

[Skadi]

I feel like its a cheap fix.

[Joseph Mallan]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 04:03 PM, said:

Long Range Pinpoint Alpha Builds?
Do these include 2 ERPPC 2 PPC builds which wont function on the 30th?
Because I bet that's exactly what your talking about, which makes what your talking about a total ******* moot point, sir.

I didn't say long range. Did I? No I didn't. The +24 heat on an AC40 build is what I am mostly critisizing. I throw 50% more damage than that with out a penalty. With 6-7 weapons I might add. But penalizing 2 coolish running weapons is oh so fair.

[Wintersdark]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 03:54 PM, said:

Stopped most of the High Alpha builds.
Not all of them. But most of them.

Augh!

No, not most of them. ONE of them - the pure PPC stalker.

AC40 jag? Still works fine with PPC's and an AC20, same high pinpoint alpha.

Gauss+2PPC? Still works fine without changes. Gauss+3PPC still works too, though they have to cool longer.


This is why I'm so frustrated by this... these changes are basically worthless, they don't actually stop the actual problem builds, only the couple that people talked about a lot... and even then it doesn't really stop them, but force them to change to better builds with the same high alphas.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Wintersdark, on 18 July 2013 - 04:30 PM, said:

Augh!

No, not most of them. ONE of them - the pure PPC stalker.

AC40 jag? Still works fine with PPC's and an AC20, same high pinpoint alpha.

Gauss+2PPC? Still works fine without changes. Gauss+3PPC still works too, though they have to cool longer.


This is why I'm so frustrated by this... these changes are basically worthless, they don't actually stop the actual problem builds, only the couple that people talked about a lot... and even then it doesn't really stop them, but force them to change to better builds with the same high alphas.

You ARE aware that this fix is only half implemented right now, right?

The changes are not worthless, you people are just crying and complaining that the sky is ******* falling down when we have some actual progress being made.

MECHS ARENT DESIGNED TO ALPHA STRIKE EVERY ******* TIME WEAPONS ARE OFF COOLDOWN


In terms of gamplay: STAGED FIRE > ALPHA STRIKE

WHOA LOOK AT THAT, THATS WHAT WE'RE NOW BEING FORCED TO DO

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 18 July 2013 - 04:34 PM.

[FupDup]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 04:33 PM, said:

MECHS ARENT DESIGNED TO ALPHA STRIKE EVERY ******* TIME WEAPONS ARE OFF COOLDOWN

If you had enough heat sinks in BT, actually yes you could in fact alpha strike every single turn for infinity until ammo ran out or you took damage to your heatsinks.