545 replies to this topic

[Aim64C]

Unbound Inferno, on 18 July 2013 - 06:02 PM, said:

Relatively speaking. Its the measure of time to say that amount of damage was dealt.

How fast it fired could be anything inbetween. Autocannons for example were supposed to be extremely fast-firing bursts not rifle shots.

Autocannons are tricky to put into the game:

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Autocannon

"Caliber is fluff for the size of the barrel that the shell or shells are fired from and no standard caliber has been set for any of the classes of Autocannon. Autocannon in a class vary by manufacturer and model. With the fluffed number of shells and caliber being specified, no Autocannon has been specified to be one shell fired for each "round" or burst of fire. Probable exceptions are the 185 mm ChemJet Gun Autocannon/20 mounted on the Demolisher combat vehicle and Monitor Surface vessel or the 203 mm Ultra Autocannon/20 on the Cauldron Born A BattleMech. "

Regardless - the game grouped them into classes and assumed that all damage from an autocannon burst would be deposited into a single section of the mech.

Which is what this game attempts to emulate with the ACs.

That's been the guiding principle for all weapons up to this point spare the laser - which has had its damage spread. This was necessary to make ballistics competitive with laser weaponry (as a Jenner with a 30 point insta-alpha is kind of hard to fight against when it takes about 3-6 times the tonnage to even begin to compete with ballistics... unless you start to horribly depreciate the damage energy weapons do - which brings up problems with designs that don't pack 6 of them along).

So, while it might sound like a good idea to shift autocannons over to a different system... I'm not so sure that's a great idea in the long run, as it would require considerable adjustments to the behavior of lasers to make ballistics truly competitive with energy weapon performance.

Which is the main reason why the PPC is in the state it is. It's vastly superior to other energy weapons under almost any engagement profile and competes against the role of ballistics - which require more tonnage and space for the same functionality and even damage.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Mystere, on 18 July 2013 - 06:06 PM, said:

Did you consider the possibility that stopping alpha striking was not the goal, but instead reducing the frequency of continuous higher-damage (>40) alpha strikes? How do the changes succeed in that area? (It's a serious question as I haven't done any checking yet).

But what number is acceptable? Why 40?

My x2 er ppc gauss ppc misery has no trouble dealing 40+ damage to one location. When that changes i switch to x2er ppc ac20.

What happens when clan mechs (warhawk) come out?

I'd be a lot less concerned if it had been explicitly stated that this was temporary until they got the resources to implement convergence/hardpoint/whatever solutions. That has not been the case (as far as I know).

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

That's the dirty little secret about this.

When is it going to be "fully implemented?"

When the dev's say it is?

When will that be?

......

The 30th, genius. Way to waste everyones time by writing an essay for a searchable answer

[Joseph Mallan]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 06:10 PM, said:

And that's the fact of the matter. A lot of TT mechs could be run without any 'real' heat buildup.

This is not quite true. And it is especially not true for the 3050s! At this time most Mechs cannot Alpha their full weapon load more than twice without nasty side effects.

[FupDup]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

The 30th, genius. Way to waste everyones time by writing an essay for a searchable answer

As far as we have been told, all the 30th will fix is the ER + standard workaround for PPCs and LL.


Something tells me that there are a whole lot more ways to game the system than just mixing ER and standard energy weapons...

[AntiCitizenJuan]

FupDup, on 18 July 2013 - 06:31 PM, said:

As far as we have been told, all the 30th will fix is the ER + standard workaround for PPCs and LL.


Something tells me that there are a whole lot more ways to game the system than just mixing ER and standard energy weapons...

I have the feeling that when thats all said and done the game will be in a better state than most are assuming.

[Aim64C]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

The 30th, genius. Way to waste everyones time by writing an essay for a searchable answer

Lol.

I believe that essay explained exactly why this -cannot- be addressed by the patch on the 30th.

But I do admire your enthusiasm and naiveté.

This is why no college degree program should accept standardized, selected-response based courses. People get so used to being able to recognize the dogmatically correct answer out of the presented that the ability to actually understand and explain why that is the 'correct' answer (or, more importantly, the limits to the correctness of the answer) has become something of a dark art.

Words can't quite express the sadness in my heart to see the accomplishments and reputations of people generations' past soiled by the token-granting of 4 and even some 6 year degrees....

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

Lol.

I believe that essay explained exactly why this -cannot- be addressed by the patch on the 30th.

But I do admire your enthusiasm and naiveté.

This is why no college degree program should accept standardized, selected-response based courses. People get so used to being able to recognize the dogmatically correct answer out of the presented that the ability to actually understand and explain why that is the 'correct' answer (or, more importantly, the limits to the correctness of the answer) has become something of a dark art.

Words can't quite express the sadness in my heart to see the accomplishments and reputations of people generations' past soiled by the token-granting of 4 and even some 6 year degrees....

Ad hominem hidden behind pseudo-intellectualism.
Charming.

[Deathlike]

I'll just post this since the Cheese King will be operational for the upcoming tourney:

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Let's all complain about a temporary ruleset that will ultimately lead to the game being more balanced and more fun.
Because PPC-Hodor-pocalypse was/is so good for the community.

Edited by AntiCitizenJuan, 18 July 2013 - 06:45 PM.

[Deathlike]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Let's all complain about a temporary ruleset that will ultimately lead to the game being more balanced and more fun.

What if I told you that the "temporary ruleset" is flawed, and that you would be shocked at what higher level play would still look like post June 30th?

Mind you, I agree with regular PUG level play... "all is well", but if you dig deeper... all is not well.

Edited by Deathlike, 18 July 2013 - 06:48 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Let's all complain about a temporary ruleset that will ultimately lead to the game being more balanced and more fun.
Because PPC-Hodor-pocalypse was/is so good for the community.

See I had no problem facing it. And in 4 accounts I have 2 ERPPCs an 1 PPC.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Joseph Mallan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:48 PM, said:

See I had no problem facing it. And in 4 accounts I have 2 ERPPCs an 1 PPC.

Yeah, I dealt with the 4 month ****** game snoozefest too. And skillcats. And both LRMpocalypse.

That doesnt mean it was good.

[FupDup]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Let's all complain about a temporary ruleset that will ultimately lead to the game being more balanced and more fun.
Because PPC-Hodor-pocalypse was/is so good for the community.

I don't quite think you get it yet.

The PPC is still the overall most efficient and effective weapon in the game. Making it harder to alpha more than 2 at the same time might make kills take a little bit longer, but that doesn't change the balance of individual weapons.


We also have no idea if it's even temporary or not. PGI pretty much never removes huge features like this outside of knockdowns, so in all honesty I expect them to keep it forever (and to hell with the consequences).

[subgenius]

Aim64C, on 18 July 2013 - 06:37 PM, said:

This is why no college degree program should accept standardized, selected-response based courses. People get so used to being able to recognize the dogmatically correct answer out of the presented that the ability to actually understand and explain why that is the 'correct' answer (or, more importantly, the limits to the correctness of the answer) has become something of a dark art.

Wow, that's some serious arrogance for a video game message board! I mean, wow... not only are you making assumptions about the game state next month (how many times have you written something like "you'll see I'm right in 2 weeks" as some kind of proof that your unproven opinion is better than someone elses'?) but now you're moving on to characterize the higher education experiences of everyone else. Pretty impressive.

All your post theorizing still fails to address the fact that the majority are seeing a positive impact from this change. Yeah yeah, you can keep saying "but it's the SRMS, not the heat" but you have no way to prove it. Just an assumption. Like we all have. The only solid fact is that the majority are pleased.

[Urdnot Mau]

I voted for yes, but to be clear, i don't think it's a restriction. People can still boat. They can use the build. They can fire all of their weapons at the same type. The only difference is that now they have to pay the heat to fire multiple stronger/more effective weapons

[subgenius]

Deathlike, on 18 July 2013 - 06:47 PM, said:

Mind you, I agree with regular PUG level play... "all is well", but if you dig deeper... all is not well.

Yet more arrogant assumptions. You don't know your ELO and you certainly don't know mine. You're not digging deeper... you're assuming that everyone who disagrees with you is bad at the game. Pretty weak logic.

[Unbound Inferno]

FupDup, on 18 July 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

I don't quite think you get it yet.

The PPC is still the overall most efficient and effective weapon in the game. Making it harder to alpha more than 2 at the same time might make kills take a little bit longer, but that doesn't change the balance of individual weapons.


We also have no idea if it's even temporary or not. PGI pretty much never removes huge features like this outside of knockdowns, so in all honesty I expect them to keep it forever (and to hell with the consequences).

I thought I heard a birdie say KD was coming back after launch and sometime around UI 2.0

[AntiCitizenJuan]

FupDup, on 18 July 2013 - 06:51 PM, said:

I don't quite think you get it yet.

The PPC is still the overall most efficient and effective weapon in the game. Making it harder to alpha more than 2 at the same time might make kills take a little bit longer, but that doesn't change the balance of individual weapons.

We also have no idea if it's even temporary or not. PGI pretty much never removes huge features like this outside of knockdowns, so in all honesty I expect them to keep it forever (and to hell with the consequences).

Referring to the current ER/Regular workaround people keep bitching about as temporary, not the heat rule.
And they already said they might increase PPC heat on the 30th, and based off the community reaction, they probably will.

[Joseph Mallan]

AntiCitizenJuan, on 18 July 2013 - 06:50 PM, said:

Yeah, I dealt with the 4 month ****** game snoozefest too. And skillcats. And both LRMpocalypse.

That doesnt mean it was good.

Depends on what you call good. I have no problem facing what the game has been throwing at us cause I am expecting the Clans to be even worse than anything we have dealt with to date. If it is I am better prepared if its not I am ready anyway.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 July 2013 - 06:56 PM.