21 replies to this topic

[Rigiroth]

I understand the passions that people feel for this game, but the loaded questions wont help anyone. I'm reading the Ask the Devs 42 and I'm starting to see the loaded questions. Questions like "If you don't do something your game will die and your company with it." That is not a good question, but it is reflective of a lot of the forum member. If you want the devs to be more open to you, be less hostile.

My track record with rage posts isn't spotless, but I try to control it fairly well, so for the good of the game, the devs, and all of the players, control your hostility. It wont help anything.

[1453 R]

An admirable stance, and one I've advocated before, but ultimately futile, methinks. People are too busy nursing their private grudges, cherishing their vitriolic hatred of anything and everything Piranha does, and figuring it's "SO $%&!ing EASY!" to get the game into a perfect state, and never mind that nobody can even agree on what the perfect state is, let alone get it into the game and going in a week like they claim they'd be able to do by themselves.

All the filth-spewing rage volcanoes around here make me wonder why Piranha even bothers. Seeing some of the posts people who're ostensibly invested in the success of the game make, I would understand - disapprove, but completely understand - if Piranha torpedoed the entire thing right here and now and told us all to go diddle ourselves. Really...who here even remotely thinks that such posts are the slightest bit helpful?

Edited by 1453 R, 05 July 2013 - 09:45 AM.

[Rigiroth]

It's just annoying that they ruin it for everyone.

[Shakespeare]

This is why we can't have nice things.

[skullman86]

They deserve loaded questions for changing the formula. I mean, what the hell did they expect?

"Oh look, the whole forum liked this question regarding a subject that we have been avoiding for months...I guess we don't know our users as well as we thought."

[superbob]

So OP, you're saying verbal violence is not the answer? I think it's about not asking the right questions... No wait, this was about questions?

[Deathlike]

The longer PGI goes along NOT answering the tough questions, the more the loaded the question gets.

PGI's lack of communication (not the silly "we communicate often" BS that they claim on NGNG) demonstrates a lack of understanding of what they are doing and not having any consideration of "what they should be doing". They are their own worst PR at times.

[Kiiyor]

The trouble with Mechwarrior... Is that it's full of old mechwarriors.

Generations of mech lovers, all pining after a new, perfect vision of their old stomping grounds, a glorious modern Frankenstein conglomeration of the best bits of the old games....

....all wanting something different, and all unwilling to compromise on their vision. They will never be pleased, because no game can live up to what their imaginations can concoct.

I'm sure I'm being around 87% melodramatic, but the sentiment is still there.

Also, alpha damage is bollocks. That probably has something to do with something too.

[SJ SCP Wolf]

Kiiyor, on 06 July 2013 - 01:06 AM, said:

The trouble with Mechwarrior... Is that it's full of old mechwarriors.

Generations of mech lovers, all pining after a new, perfect vision of their old stomping grounds, a glorious modern Frankenstein conglomeration of the best bits of the old games....

....all wanting something different, and all unwilling to compromise on their vision. They will never be pleased, because no game can live up to what their imaginations can concoct.

I'm sure I'm being around 87% melodramatic, but the sentiment is still there.

Also, alpha damage is bollocks. That probably has something to do with something too.

Actually you are spot on. I couldn't have said it better.

[Randalf Yorgen]

1453 R, on 05 July 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

An admirable stance, and one I've advocated before, but ultimately futile, methinks. People are too busy nursing their private grudges, cherishing their vitriolic hatred of anything and everything Piranha does, and figuring it's "SO $%&!ing EASY!" to get the game into a perfect state, and never mind that nobody can even agree on what the perfect state is, let alone get it into the game and going in a week like they claim they'd be able to do by themselves.

All the filth-spewing rage volcanoes around here make me wonder why Piranha even bothers. Seeing some of the posts people who're ostensibly invested in the success of the game make, I would understand - disapprove, but completely understand - if Piranha torpedoed the entire thing right here and now and told us all to go diddle ourselves. Really...who here even remotely thinks that such posts are the slightest bit helpful?

Well if most of the money from the founder program hadn't been redirected into MechWarrior Tactics and had been reinvested into MW:O like it should have been then maybe we would be in a really different place. People can vent, need to vent, but I agree they cross the line all the time. Guilty as charged. Now they are doing it again with Phoenix, does anyone really know where the money from this is headed? IGP is also backing Star Citizen and several other games, will it go there or will it stay in the PGI/MWO Coffers? If the game was where it should be for having been in Open Beta for this long then I doubt many people would be raging like they are. However it's not anywhere close to where it should be and those who are passionate about the game because of what it is and where it comes from are leaving for other games (neverwinter believe it or not) and those who are still here (mostly) are those who only gain pleasure from stomping on others (Players and Devs both) So yes, the hate on the forums isn't good and people should try to not do it however it is easy to see why it's here and it's very easy to understand what caused it to be here. If the Devs are being made to wear some of the egg on their face then good, maybe it will help deliver them the reality check they need and plant the kick on the but-t they require to get off it and fix things right.

[Accursed Richards]

1453 R, on 05 July 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

An admirable stance, and one I've advocated before, but ultimately futile, methinks. People are too busy nursing their private grudges, cherishing their vitriolic hatred of anything and everything Piranha does, and figuring it's "SO $%&!ing EASY!" to get the game into a perfect state, and never mind that nobody can even agree on what the perfect state is, let alone get it into the game and going in a week like they claim they'd be able to do by themselves.

All the filth-spewing rage volcanoes around here make me wonder why Piranha even bothers. Seeing some of the posts people who're ostensibly invested in the success of the game make, I would understand - disapprove, but completely understand - if Piranha torpedoed the entire thing right here and now and told us all to go diddle ourselves. Really...who here even remotely thinks that such posts are the slightest bit helpful?

There are posts like that, undeniably. I can think of something that would reduce their numbers a bit--engage with sensible, well-reasoned constructive criticisms, and just ignore the people foaming at the mouth.

If you recoil from the shouty posters and back away from the forums as a whole, that just makes the atmosphere worse. More and more posters will figure that if reasoned questions will get ignored, they might as well rant--they'll still be ignored, but at least they can let off steam.

[AlmightyAeng]

Steemship, on 05 July 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Questions like "If you don't do something your game will die and your company with it." That is not a good question

Do be fair...that's not a question. It's a statement.

Randalf Yorgen, on 06 July 2013 - 07:46 AM, said:

Well if most of the money from the founder program hadn't been redirected into MechWarrior Tactics and had been reinvested into MW:O like it should have been then maybe we would be in a really different place. People can vent, need to vent, but I agree they cross the line all the time. Guilty as charged. Now they are doing it again with Phoenix, does anyone really know where the money from this is headed?

Actually, yes. I think it was Paul that addressed it in an NGNG interview.

100% of the money from Phoenix is going to MWO...but he also mentioned that it was going to the 'marketing' since they haven't done any.

I expect that it'll nearly all be spent on marketing pre- and post-launch...and not actually funneled into development.

[Accursed Richards]

Shakespeare, on 05 July 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

This is why we can't have nice things.

Just in general, that phrase never made sense to me. Why should a community (any community) as a whole be punished for the actions of the very worst members, which the other members could in no way affect?

[8RoundsRapid]

Ghost Badger, on 11 July 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

Actually, yes. I think it was Paul that addressed it in an NGNG interview.

100% of the money from Phoenix is going to MWO...but he also mentioned that it was going to the 'marketing' since they haven't done any.

Thing is, when a liar is caught lieing several times, then tries to tell you that something is 100%, without-a-doubt certain, nobody believes him.

These chuckleheads have been spouting sureties and guarantees for over a year now, and they are batting way under .500 on any such guarantees or promises to be anything other than meaningless.

[Shakespeare]

Accursed Richards, on 11 July 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

"This is why we can't have nice things."

Just in general, that phrase never made sense to me. Why should a community (any community) as a whole be punished for the actions of the very worst members, which the other members could in no way affect?

It's essentially shorthand for Tragedy of the commons ... in that it's not that the group is punished from the outside for the actions of a few, but that the actions of those few are destructive all on their own.

Basically, pulling questions from a large pool allowed the most vocal members to tilt the volume of responses in favor of questions that couldn't be answered (as much a PGI problem as a community problem, admittedly), and when that wasn't enough, those same people started using AtD question lists as opportunities to be vitriolic and accusatory, to the point where those very threads became almost useless for finding an actual, non-loaded question to be answered. So the actions of a few destroyed the utility of question threads for everyone else. I sure as hell wouldn't want to read through all of them.

This new approach might help, it might hinder, but ultimately my point, vaguely stated though it was, was that by turning AtD threads into a shouting match, and then repeatedly hanging the 'dev' in question out to dry for vague answers, or not picking the right questions, we made them useless for actual dialogue.

I'm suprised they lasted this long.

Edited by Shakespeare, 11 July 2013 - 01:17 PM.

[Hammerfinn]

Deathlike, on 05 July 2013 - 05:18 PM, said:

PGI's lack of communication (not the silly "we communicate often" BS that they claim on NGNG) demonstrates a lack of understanding of what they are doing and not having any consideration of "what they should be doing". They are their own worst PR at times.

Been in several Betas, play several F2P titles, and the only team I have seen that communicates with players better is Riot and LoL. And that's now huge. During the LoL Beta, you got exactly one communique per patch. That was it. Gain some perspective.

[NeutronicalGaming]

1453 R, on 05 July 2013 - 09:45 AM, said:

All the filth-spewing rage volcanoes around here make me wonder why Piranha even bothers.

this i agree with, wholeheartedly. it is incredibly difficult to get any large project off the ground in the modern world and when all your 'backers' and 'fans' just turn traitor on you over a tiny feature instead of politely making it known that they WILL turn traitor over it if it isn't remedied sharpish must leave a bad taste int he mouth.

the whole 'every game is a beta' phase of current games development is probably not helping as it just de-focuses the team even more.. i honestly long for the days where mech patch 1 and 2 were completely optional, and released loong after the competitive scene debunks them with an otherwise complete game around them, instead of this incremental feature creep.

[sokitumi]

One does not simply walk into mechwarrior development.

[Angel of Annihilation]

The thing of it is, PGI has really pulled some bonehead stuff in the development of this game and it has really hurt their credibility.

The money from the Founders Program was one of those. Everyone, rightly or wrongly, felt the funds generated by the Founder's program was sort of a kickstarter for the game and that the money they invested would be 100% used to make MWO a better game. Total bonehead move on the publishier, developer, whatever to channel that money to other projects.

Then if as someone mentioned they take all the Pheonix money and use it JUST for marketing...again kind of a bad move, I mean isn't the publisher suppose to market the game and if so how about all the money the publisher got from the Founder program, how about using that to market the game and let the Pheonix money go to development and new content?

Basically it goes back full circle.

Then there was the double heat sink debacle. The release the DHS and within minutes the community can tell there is a huge bug going one. So what do the devs do? The say, "Whoops, we didn't notice it was a bug". This was because instead of understanding how things were suppose to work, they "liked" how heat worked because of the bug. Then what was even worse was instead of correcting the bug, they basically decided that since they liked how heat worked with the bug, that they were just going to pretty much leave it in place and make the bug a mechanic. What??

I mean it is hard to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore. For me they have earned back at least some of my trust but every time I read the forums, see a dev post or read the patch notes, I keep expecting them to totally do something totally stupid yet again.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 14 July 2013 - 02:11 PM.

[Hauser]

Viktor Drake, on 14 July 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

The money from the Founders Program was one of those. Everyone, rightly or wrongly, felt the funds generated by the Founder's program was sort of a kickstarter for the game and that the money they invested would be 100% used to make MWO a better game. Total bonehead move on the publishier, developer, whatever to channel that money to other projects.

Do you have a source for that? I'd like to hear more about it.

Viktor Drake, on 14 July 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Then if as someone mentioned they take all the Pheonix money and use it JUST for marketing...again kind of a bad move, I mean isn't the publisher suppose to market the game and if so how about all the money the publisher got from the Founder program, how about using that to market the game and let the Pheonix money go to development and new content?

As above.

Viktor Drake, on 14 July 2013 - 02:10 PM, said:

Then there was the double heat sink debacle. The release the DHS and within minutes the community can tell there is a huge bug going one. So what do the devs do? The say, "Whoops, we didn't notice it was a bug". This was because instead of understanding how things were suppose to work, they "liked" how heat worked because of the bug. Then what was even worse was instead of correcting the bug, they basically decided that since they liked how heat worked with the bug, that they were just going to pretty much leave it in place and make the bug a mechanic. What??

That one made kinda sense. If you make a mistake but the game feels good because of it then it's a happy coincidence. With double heatsinks at the full 2.00 it would remove heat as a limiting factor and send the time to kill into the gutter.

Edited by Hauser, 14 July 2013 - 04:42 PM.