18 replies to this topic

[Throat Punch]

They should just reset the time line to the 3025 era and go with a pure IS vs IS game. Make the community warfare part of the Succession Wars and be done with it. Balance would be easier, because unless they have some impressive ace up their sleeve that suddenly balances everything when the Clans hit, clan mechs/tech are going to be a nightmare. Once the player base gets their hands on a Timberwolf or a Dire Wolf with all that sweet sweet clan technology no one is going to want to play an old school IS mech again. Entire weapon types will become obsolete as the Clan versions are better and more efficient. I know everyone wants to see the Clans, but they seriously are going to be a mess. We have already seen the trouble PGI has balancing the current weapons and technology. Does anyone truly believe they will suddenly get better with the introduction of new weapons/tech? They need to concentrate on balancing what we already have and rethinking their design direction before they ad another variable to the equation.

[Grouch]

Amen to that brother.

[GODzillaGSPB]

I agree! The succession wars hold more then enough potential for any MechWarrior game. We don't need the clans, yet.

[Lootee]

They could have sidestepped a whole slew of the contentious issues by setting the game in 3025: no gauss rifles, ERPPCs, ECM, XL engines, endosteel, DHS, streak SRMs, and all the brokenness that comes with the Clans.

They're going to end up trying to balance Clan DHS with normal SHS and it'll be no less a disaster. Not to mention the other clan cheese: ultra AC/20s, LRM20s that weigh only 5 tons and can be used at 0m, large pulse lasers that hit like PPCs at longer than PPC range, heavy medium lasers that hit as hard as PPCs but weigh 1 ton.

Good times ahead.

[Mister Blastman]

Clan mechs are supposed to be a nightmare. Deal with it. You stravags shall be cleansed and the pure shall reign supreme!

[Kitane]

How could they possible give up on those clan Omniderp gold mines?

That's a huge amount of cash lying on the ground.

[Bromineberry]

3025 sounds very good to me. I thought exactly the same thing: I like the clan mechs but I fear, it will break everything in the game...balancing this will be a nightmare. Then there is the question of "Who wants to run an IS-technoloy mech when they can fight in a clan mech"? And, especially as a medium mech, you die quite easily right now...but with all that advanced clan weaponary without an armor buff? Ohh...

[Throat Punch]

Mister Blastman, on 17 July 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Clan mechs are supposed to be a nightmare. Deal with it. You stravags shall be cleansed and the pure shall reign supreme!

Oh believe me, i want to see the Clans as much as anyone (Smoke Jaguars represent!), I just don't have faith in PGI to implement them with any degree of success and this is coming from a guy who is a founder, dropped $80 on the Phoenix mechs and has probably spent another $400 on MC over the course of the year.

I just think they need to concentrate on properly balancing of the current game. Reset us to 3025, get the balance down pat, implement all the missing features (Community Warfare, UI 2.0, a proper matchmaker or lobby, etc.). Once they get all that done, then jump the time line forward to the Clan invasion era and introduce the new stuff and start raking in the money.

[Purlana]

That would mean PGI would have to admit making very large mistakes. Never going to happen.

[AvatarofWhat]

the only thing worse then telling me the clans aren't invading this year is to tell me they aren't invading at all. I don't care about PGI's track record on these things, give me clan mechs or GTF.O!

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 17 July 2013 - 06:54 AM.

[FatBabyThompkins]

A thought: every Clan mech ton has a scaling factor. So, say an IS double lance can field 500 tons, then a Clan double lance can field 350 tones (or some factor that makes balancing sense). But, that would mean the pugonator system would have to account for tonnage... and that intra tonnage balance is accurate...

So, it is feasible. You could see 6 Clan on 8 IS matches. Or 8 vs. 8 with tonnage handicaps.

[Throat Punch]

FatBabyThompkins, on 17 July 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

A thought: every Clan mech ton has a scaling factor. So, say an IS double lance can field 500 tons, then a Clan double lance can field 350 tones (or some factor that makes balancing sense). But, that would mean the pugonator system would have to account for tonnage... and that intra tonnage balance is accurate...

So, it is feasible. You could see 6 Clan on 8 IS matches. Or 8 vs. 8 with tonnage handicaps.

Clans fight in groups of 5 (Stars) and the typical balance in TT is 2 Lances vs 1 Star. I agree that enforcing that would possibly help balance; however, that is in a pure Clan tech vs. pure IS tech engagements. The problem of balance occurs when IS mechs start to equip Clan technology. That makes balanced teams a little more complicated and in TT they used Battle value to balance those fights out. What PGI intends to do is still a mystery, but given their current track record its probably going to be a convoluted mess. Again this is coming from a guy that really wants to see this game be successful, I just wish PGI would take a step back and look at the big picture instead of the individual parts that need fixing in a vacuum.

[focuspark]

FatBabyThompkins, on 17 July 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

A thought: every Clan mech ton has a scaling factor. So, say an IS double lance can field 500 tons, then a Clan double lance can field 350 tones (or some factor that makes balancing sense). But, that would mean the pugonator system would have to account for tonnage... and that intra tonnage balance is accurate...

So, it is feasible. You could see 6 Clan on 8 IS matches. Or 8 vs. 8 with tonnage handicaps.

Given that the Match Maker no longer cares about tonnage, it'll likely end up being a 12 v 10 scenario. With only 20% more 'mechs on the field, the IS forces don't stand a chance unless PGI plans to 'nerf the hell out of what Clan technology is supposed to be. Perhaps if they did 12 v 5, but that seems too lop sided towards the IS side (if you can believe).

The fact is, the OP is right. PGI can't get IS vs IS balanced correctly, very little faith they can get IS vs Clans done right.

[Gaan Cathal]

focuspark, on 17 July 2013 - 07:08 AM, said:

Given that the Match Maker no longer cares about tonnage, it'll likely end up being a 12 v 10 scenario. With only 20% more 'mechs on the field, the IS forces don't stand a chance unless PGI plans to 'nerf the hell out of what Clan technology is supposed to be. Perhaps if they did 12 v 5, but that seems too lop sided towards the IS side (if you can believe).

12v10 might be too Clan-favouring in TT, but this is not TT. Clan mechs carry more firepower, but not more defences than IS mechs. How often do you find that a team that looses two mechs early goes on to loose? It's a huge amount of the time because of the way that focused fire melts mechs in MW:O. It'll melt Clan mechs just as fast.

[FatBabyThompkins]

Morsdraco, on 17 July 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Clans fight in groups of 5 (Stars) and the typical balance in TT is 2 Lances vs 1 Star. I agree that enforcing that would possibly help balance; however, that is in a pure Clan tech vs. pure IS tech engagements. The problem of balance occurs when IS mechs start to equip Clan technology. That makes balanced teams a little more complicated and in TT they used Battle value to balance those fights out. What PGI intends to do is still a mystery, but given their current track record its probably going to be a convoluted mess. Again this is coming from a guy that really wants to see this game be successful, I just wish PGI would take a step back and look at the big picture instead of the individual parts that need fixing in a vacuum.

I haven't looked at BT in 20+ years, so yeah, that would make sense for the Star/Lance configurations.

As for equipping Clan tech on IS machines... yeah that gets messy. The only way, as you said, would be to have a battle rating for a mech, which is yet another system to balance.

[General Taskeen]

That would mean no future Jihad Jenner 10-X

[Hellcat420]

no thanks

[Anjian]

PGI big mistake is not starting after the Age of Destruction era. So you won't have to bother if mechs were introduced before or after 3050 for inclusion. By starting in the AoD era, everything that was ever introduced to BT will be fair game.

By starting at the very latest of eras, you would already have balanced for the Clans right at the very beginning, and you do not have to balance for anything like that afterwards.

[Throat Punch]

Anjian, on 17 July 2013 - 10:38 AM, said:

PGI big mistake is not starting after the Age of Destruction era. So you won't have to bother if mechs were introduced before or after 3050 for inclusion. By starting in the AoD era, everything that was ever introduced to BT will be fair game.

By starting at the very latest of eras, you would already have balanced for the Clans right at the very beginning, and you do not have to balance for anything like that afterwards.

Starting at AoD era would give you a higher mount of mechs an equipment, which also translates to more mechs and equipment to balance. The idea is to start with less things to balance then slowly work forward, not try to balance everything at once, which is the mess we are getting into now.