21 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

It was the reign of original Streakcat (the one in CB, not the one people had been crying about in the last months) that had partly prompted PGI to introduce ECM as hard counter. Now that Streakcat and Streak missile in general have been neutered, it is time to make Guardian ECM, to be Guardian ECM again.

Without making ECM into soft counter again, PGI will not be able to accurately balance guided missiles such as the LRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 July 2013 - 07:43 PM.

[One Medic Army]

I don't think streaks are much (if at all) weaker than they need/ought to be, but yeah it's time for ECM to stop being a hard counter.

Edited by One Medic Army, 17 July 2013 - 06:18 PM.

[Deathlike]

I'm pretty sure the Word of Paul has stated that it is "very close to where they want it to be".

So it has been said, and so it has been final.

http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

Edited by Deathlike, 17 July 2013 - 06:49 PM.

[El Bandito]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the Word of Paul has stated that it is "very close to where they want it to be". So it has been said, and so it has been final. http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

He said that long time ago and Streaks were not nerfed back then.

Any good balance director should be prepared to make changes to game balance depending on the situation, on the fly.

Edited by El Bandito, 17 July 2013 - 07:49 PM.

[Deathlike]

El Bandito, on 17 July 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

He said that long time ago and Streaks were not nerfed back then.

I dunno what to tell you. I'm just responding to the state of ECM, not Streaks...

Quote

Any good balance director should be prepared to make changes to game balance depending on the situation, on the fly.

You are really begging the obvious and rhetorical question.. is Paul a good balance director?

[B0oN]

El Bandito, on 17 July 2013 - 06:12 PM, said:

It was the reign of original Streakcat (the one in CB, not the one people had been crying about in the last months) that had partly prompted PGI to introduce ECM as hard counter. Now that Streakcat and Streak missile in general have been neutered, it is time to make Guardian ECM, to be Guardian ECM again.

Without making ECM into soft counter again, PGI will not be able to accurately balance guided missiles such as the LRMs.

Sounds pretty reasonable, question remains :
will PGI do anything about anything ^^

[JokerVictor]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

You are really begging the obvious and rhetorical question.. is Paul a good balance director?

Lol

Which forum replaced general? Oh yeah... gameplay balance. Guess that answers that, doesn't it?

[Donnie Silveray]

I'd say Paul generally ranks as Average at best though that may change in the future considering the past few months the game was plagued by net issues skewing balance statistics. My personal advice to him is to utilize a weekly balance release schedule over a bi-weekly schedule while staggering said balance changes in each week.

Week 1: SRM testing
Week 2: PPC testing
Week 3: SRM adjustment
Week 4: PPC adjustment

And so on along with the standard fare on bi-week patches. But I digress, this may be impossible as it'd force them to commit code for a patch very frequently and time better spent programming is spent constantly compiling for a week's balance adjustment.

Thus far from my experience, the current situation regarding the ECM/Lockon Synergy is rather bonkers but this is a fiercely difficult topic to work around. If it was up to me then ECM mechs would likely only shield themselves in one mode while shielding a group in another but having weaker benefits, or countering in a counter mode. ECM should in some way make locking on much harder as it is supposed to be a counter to LRMs aside from AMS. On the other hand, say Streaks had a different lockon system that isn't totally gimped by ECM....

Either way, whatever the solution may be, it must be simple, elegant, and smooth. One system interlocking into another in a logical pathway. Right now the system is a bit of a mess.

[Stomp]

I'm glad this is cropping up again, a plea for nerfing ECM for more equal footing for LRM users, but I disagree with the timing; I'd like to see an ECM nerf AFTER they've taken out the ability for a Stalker to mount FOUR LRM 20s. I want the missiles balanced just as much as PPCs and Gauss and SRMs; and I'd like to see some effort towards this before I'd consider a return to ECM's original intention as a part of Battletech.

But until they fix Min-maxing machines, I'd rather ECM stay. And since competition is the point of this game, it'll always exist to an extent. Nobody wants to see the LRMpocalypse again. While the sniper meta is tough, there is NOTHING as humiliating as being lurmed so much from seemingly nowhere. Another meta like that will severely cripple our playerbase, I'm sure.

But good job on OP for pushing this discourse! Also, if you've got misgivings about the heat scale and hard point limitations, I'd encourage you to check out QQ's HomelessBill's thread, you can find HERE: http://mwomercs.com/...oats-and-clans/

[Aym]

Deathlike, on 17 July 2013 - 06:49 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure the Word of Paul has stated that it is "very close to where they want it to be".

So it has been said, and so it has been final.

http://mwomercs.com/...f-guardian-ecm/

He also said cool shot would negate heat... he also said no 3rd person view... he also said mechs would be more unique with reasons to take different chassis... Hmmm, seeing a picture?

[Blackfoot]

Of course this is what happens since PGI wants to "balance" weapons and features before they even have them all implemented.

I've never partaken in any other beta, all this is new to me. And even I can see what the problem is with them developing this game. They over-nerf or over-buff things constantly trying to balance them when there is still weapons like the LBX that have been in limbo for months.

At this rate CW will be at least another year before its released. And probably still another year before PGI "balances" it.

As much as I want to like this game they are making it harder an harder for me to do so.

[Trev Firestorm]

While it really shouldn't have had that functionality to begin with, once BAP turned ECM counter it really doesn't matter, you're going to want it anyway to target shutdown mechs... oh wait they broke that didn't they

[Donnie Silveray]

Blackfoot, on 18 July 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

At this rate CW will be at least another year before its released. And probably still another year before PGI "balances" it.

I am pretty sure the CW team is a completely different division than the gameplay balance team. Even if there was overlap they'd prefer getting CW in a timely manner wheres gameplay balancing can proceed patch by patch.

[TexAce]

people are still discussing ECM??

I hardly ever register it in the field anymore.

PS: The "Gameplay balance team" is one guy, namely Paul.

Edited by TexAss, 18 July 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[Syllogy]

Aym, on 18 July 2013 - 02:45 AM, said:

He also said cool shot would negate heat... he also said no 3rd person view... he also said mechs would be more unique with reasons to take different chassis... Hmmm, seeing a picture?

That wasn't Paul, haus. Get your facts straight before you haul off about things that were said last year.

[Roland]

If you want to run streaks, you carry BAP. ECM no longer really matters much.

I'm not seeing what the issue is any more.

[Marcus Tanner]

Donnie Silveray, on 17 July 2013 - 09:29 PM, said:

ECM [...] is supposed to be a counter to LRMs aside from AMS.

What makes you say that?

TexAss, on 18 July 2013 - 05:20 AM, said:

people are still discussing ECM??

I hardly ever register it in the field anymore.

That's nice.

Would a new player driving a Trebuchet or Catapult trial mech feel the same way? I don't think the game should be punishing the use of its noob-tube weapons.

Also, if you don't register it in the field any more then you probably shouldn't care if it were nerfed because it's not adding to your gameplay experience. Ideally, you should notice ECM about as much as you notice them having BAP or AMS (not much).

Roland, on 18 July 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

If you want to run streaks, you carry BAP. ECM no longer really matters much.

It cuts your range in half. That's a long way from nothing.

It also makes it harder to figure out where the enemy is and harder to figure out how badly damaged they are. Even if there were no LRMs or Streaks in the game, I'd still bring ECM. It's only 1.5 tons after all. It doesn't have to do a whole lot in order to be worth bringing. For example, a lot of players in 8v8 still bring ECM, and you don't see many missiles there on the best of days.

---

Streaks probably don't do enough damage right now. ECM doesn't help with that.

[Trauglodyte]

Roland, on 18 July 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

If you want to run streaks, you carry BAP. ECM no longer really matters much.

I'm not seeing what the issue is any more.

The issue is that bad don't want to carry BAP to counter ECM. Don't you know that this forum is 99% self entitlement?

[xDeityx]

Hard counters suck balls, competitive video games learned that years ago.

They should replace all hard counters with soft ones.

I feel like there's a phallus joke in here somewhere.

[Monky]

Please do this PGI. I would like it to feel like battletech/mechwarrior. ECM hard counter is no longer 'necessary' (if it ever was) and doesn't behave like real life or battletech ECM, nor does it add any real layer to gameplay in its current form.