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Weapons are not balanced for damage, cost nor expended space - yet are restricted by how many you can mount. And they wonder why we want PPC and not another weapon?
In this game we have a heat cost and dissipation - but its screwed up
There are differences for duration and up-front damage.
Missiles can be launched up to launcher size in smaller increments.
There is a slope mechanic that can slow speed
Heat Damage and a reticle shake.
A chainfire system that functions similar to a GCD
Weapon groups and at one rare time a delay for converging weapons.
So why can't this combination come to a game that feels like Battletech lore, but instead feels like COD, Halo or every other FPS out there - with only the flavor of it appearing like mechs?
There are the tools, the systems - and thanks to Battletech - the numbers that can give you the good, working game. Yet its not used properly. Why?
Well, rhetorical question I bet.
Anyhow, how I would do this;
Set a Turn for 10 seconds. Sounds reasonable then expect its a few (3-5) turns to kill a mech is what I want. Could be faster or slower depending on aim and other effects around that point.
Heat Dissipates over that 10 seconds. Think that's already there, but we doubled recharge or something and its all borked beyond that. So back to the basics.
Single Heat Sinks operate at 1 threshold, 1 dissipation over 10 seconds
Double Heat Sinks operate at 2 threshold and 2 dissipation over 10 seconds.
Heat penalties begin at 50% I am being generous here, should start sooner, but I want to reward good DPS builds that manage heat and have most major offending alphastrikers penalized.
Your mech slows at 1% throttle for every % above 50% heat. This means at 100% heat you move only at 50% speed. I'd say cap it at that to be safe, but couldn't hurt to have a mech go slower if its hotter and with other penalties. Sitting duck could put a new meaning on things...
You suffer a reticle shake (the JJ effect) at increasing severity per % above 50% heat This is to simulate difficulty to aim properly with hot systems, as you cool it becomes less until under 50% normally it isn't there. This I think would be the simplest way to implement an inaccuracy filter into the game. Its predictable somewhat, and not too drastic - and it already exists.
Overheating is bad. At 100% you suffer permanent damage to your mech that does not go away until the match is over.
For every % above 100% heat there is a permanent reduction in speed This could be why capped at 50% might be good as the idea is that the damage you suffer is permanent and hinders your mech, making the engine more sluggish every time. Without that 50% cap its entirely possible for someone to overheat repeatidly, have some internal damage and run hot but only manage a 35% throttle. That may be too slow...
For every % above 100% heat there is a permanent reticle shake added. Overheating becomes a bad idea as it burns your systems and makes the mech perform worse. back to that inaccuracy and adding a reason to not do it. The system can also have a cap for the shake, but that's up for testing and people to decide.
Internal damage is received at 100% heat and higher. Balance that so it scales (I know this can be done) per % above 100% heat - the intent is that you fry your insides at 150% by the damage because the time it takes to cool off to 100% from 150% is the time to burn up. Makes it a very bad idea, with higher heat dissipation, it should be less likely. However, it doesn't deal much damage at the initial overheating between 100% to 110%, allowing that to happen repeatedly within some reason - the idea being that the punishment could be incremental so the pilot could learn this is why its a bad idea without it being instant death.
There is no risk of random ammo explosions however. Don't want it so an ammo user that hits 100% heat ends up blowing up because of a random chance - although I wouldn't mind the idea. Maybe hotter? Beyond 125%?
That is just the adjustments to the heat system with tools and mechanics already available in the game.
In an odd way, it seems ridiculously simple. By installing those you already have penalties for alphastrike builds - one shot makes it come to a crawl, and if its not built right it already overheats and has issues - more on that soon.
Balance the weapons around the heat mechanic and established 10 second turn.
The idea is this. Battletech has the numbers that a weapon deals damage over the course of a turn with the weight, crit and cost. We don't need to pay attention to the fact the accuracy and targeting on that game is different here - kind of the point. However we can establish how we want a weapon to behave in the generation of heat, damage and the cost over time to get the desired results.
In this case, I'd suggest certain weapons - or specifically ER/PPC - have a huge recharge (10 seconds, or around that) for its cost of that pinpoint up-front damage. This sets the bar for other weapons and their function.
The idea is 10 Damage 10 heat for a PPC is the base. ER is 15 heat.
On a bare-bones build for a PPC stalker it can barely fire a single 4 PPC alphastrike without overheating with 21 DHS. It is out of the question to boat ERPPC beyond 3 I think as there is unlikely to ever be enough Heat Sinks to handle the heat. Someone prove me wrong and get more 31 DHS or 61 SHS on a mech with space for 4 ERPPC. Remember the heat threshold is set differently for the cost - obviously prefering the upgrade to double, but you loose crit space.
Now recharge for the PPC? This is where it gets fun. Set the recharge faster than the dissipation slightly, to balance the weapon base. The result is the careless, reckless PPC boater will overheat his mech by rushing shots before heat dissipation. The good pilot can manage it, but the undisciplined will shoot themselves in the foot. At most I'd say 8 seconds for PPC, 9 seconds for ERPPC. That extra shot has the potential of killing the mech.
See what I did there? Penalty for boating, penalty for abusing the system and a penalty to discourage it from happening. A bit severe? Perhaps, however we just established the possibility and the penalty for it and offered a better alternative through DPS that can compete somewhat without costing the entire game.
On the flip side this can substantiate those "
Follow that 10 second rule to establish the damage per turn within Battletech to apply to Mechwarrior: Online.
Might be a confusing thing here, so let's lay it out. We established a PPC is 10 damage, 10 heat with 8 second recharge to speed it up slightly. We want a faster firing Medium laser, but it should generate its damage in a similar fashion as to now. 2.5 damage over a 1 second duration with a 3 second recharge after that. Following the PPC example of recharging faster than the heat dissipation we can keep the heat up a bit so you do get gradually hotter as you fire. How much? Well, that's up for debate and the numbers could change to change the feel of the game.
I would recommend removing or stretching the hardpoint restrictions. It may also be possible to just outright remove most if not all of it.The hardpoint Crit space idea I have may work, or something similar for this balancing act.
http://mwomercs.com/...int-crit-sizes/
You now have options with a hardpoint of 3-crits for Energy.
Let's look a it. For a Medium laser it could be 2.5 damage, 1.5 heat 1 second duration and 3 second recharge is what it looks like. It will cost 3 SHS or 2 DHS per ML to permanently sustain heat. Its doable, but look at the cost.
1 PPC requires +10 SHS or +5 DHS. That is either 17 tons and 13 crits or 12 tons and 18 crits.
2 ML requires 6 SHS or 3 DHS. That is either 8 tons and 8 crits or 5 tons 11 crits.
If we use crit sizes (a PPC can sport 3 ML instead)
3 ML requires 9 SHS or 5 DHS for sustained fire. That's either 12 tons and 12 crits or 8 tons and 18 crits.
2 ML generate 5 damage over 1 second, 3 ML is 7.5 damage over 1 seconds - where the PPC is 10 damage up front, but you wait for the ML to make a second round. 2 ML 10 damage over 2 seconds, 3 ML is 15 damage over 2 seconds.
Not too different from our PPC there. Funny how it works out...
You gain the option of either a long-range sniper or the short range brawler. The brawler is lighter so a larger engine and speed is possible - or add more heat sinks to easily sustain fire, the game changes. The PPC twitchiest now has to contend with short range brawlers that can overwhelm them under 90m. ERPPC can't dominate the field up close, but that damage at range now is an alternative that could work. Mass PPC spam can't overwhelm it due to how the mass ML works when its in range by factoring travel distances and speeds as well as cover in many cases.
With that, we can just about get rid of the hardpoints. Maybe, might need tweaking somewhat to keep variety (such as crit sizes) but there are potential of it balancing itself out.
Funny how the game changes then.
But it can become extremely fast thanks to FPS convergence deathstars and enough high alphastrikes still cater to killing mechs fast if you are good at aim. How could we slow that down?
Splitting up convergence to get the damage spread to be in line with Battletech is possible.
We can also just limit what the damage is being dealt over time by restricting it somehow.
At the moment, I think that's what Paul tried with the heat penalties. Now that doesn't work, but he might be on the right track... can hardly believe I said that...
Another idea I posted was this;
http://mwomercs.com/...__fromsearch__1
It is a grouped fire chainfire restricted Global Cooldown system. It forces weapons to be fired in limited groups with restrictions on how fast another weapon can be fired.
To use an example, see a table something like this;
Small Laser - 0.1
Medium Laser, Small Pulse Laser - 0.25
ERLL, Large Laser, Medium Pulse Laser - 0.5
Large Pulse Laser - 0.75
PPC, ERPPC - 1
AC/2 - 0.05
UAC/5 - 0.15
AC/5 - 0.25
AC/10, LB 10-X AC - 0.5
Gauss - 1
AC/20 - 2
Flamers, MG and Missiles don't obey the GCD system.
That is kind of what I am thinking of. Have it so the Global Cooldown doesn't obey the duration of the weapons, making beam lasers viable and usable for faster DPS, but it adds a risk. You need to point at the target for the duration - kinda sounds like LRM launchers really. The Beam duration weapons can be brought in line by this system by having faster cooldowns to have similar relative DPS to the up-front damage types over similar duration, rewarding exceptionally good aim over point and click.
Paying attention? I just identified those with exceptional skill over those that aren't as skilled, but not in a way that really breaks the game for everyone. Good players will excel without needing to use exceptional pinpoint damage, and gives many time and opportunities to learn instead of dying by taking a corner.
To be fair on this grouped fired system, I might suggest stretching it differently than I had originally wrote up.
You can fire one weapon per section of your mech at a time. Different sections with weapons can fire at once. But the same section needs to chainfire the next shot under the GCD. The same weapon can't fire again until its own recharge is up.
This helps cut the burst time down, so maneuvers and torso twisting comes into play without requiring the entire match be a question of who deals the most damage over time. You can find cover, move and get out of the way, or stall for an ally. It also helps some mech builds and design options as to what you want and how you want to do it.
HOWEVER - have that system follow the Alphastrike rule I established. This cuts down damage drastically.
The rule is this;
Multiple weapons or Alphastrike cost = (total GCD of all weapons) x # of weapons fired
Take a typical 3xPPC/Gauss Highlander. It can fire its devastating alphastrike of at most... 25 (Gauss arm/PPC side torso) points of damage, then wait 4 seconds for some more damage in the course of another PPC. 3rd PPC would be one second after that depending on what one. The 4 energy Highlander would take two 20 shot dmage from 2 PPC at a time but waits 4 seconds between them.
A Stalker could do the 4 PPC build, on the 3F or 4N for the full alphastrike, but most wait a full 16 seconds before taking a second alphastrike shot. The 5M firing 3 waits 12 seconds for another single PPC shot - making any excess PPC pointless, while two PPC being fired forces 4 seconds between the next shot two PPC. Oddly enough this helps force and prevent overheating too fast on those builds, but its at the cost of drastically cutting down damage while keeping the potential there for certain players without making them too overpowered.
Manually setting chainfire allows for higher DPS then, but its a whole new ball game at that point. You fire only one weapon at a time so the GCD only calculates that one weapon's GCD effect.
Potential for massive damage? Yes. Devastating the battlefield? Not likely.
Multiple weapons can then be forced to follow that GCD and in turn set the pace of the fights. High-pinpoint damage might be okay to stay with such restrictions, as it gives massive opportunities for others to counteract it.
The system can be tweaked too for different results. And its using what already exists within the game.
As for missiles;
I am partial to having SRM shotgun and LRMs stagger fire as in my post; http://mwomercs.com/...28#entry2522028
The idea is that the SRMs are brawling burst damage and the LRMs are counter-able support. AMS does gain a buff for short-term effectiveness, but runs out of ammo faster than the LRM boat in most cases leaving it vulnerable to its damage later.
The SRM then could be 1 damage per missile every 5 seconds, or 2 damage in 10 seconds.
The LRM is 1 damage per missile but it is a long reload of 10 seconds (factoring staggered fire in it) makes it a support option. mainly.
Using the Streak tracking on LRMs under staggered fire I think might be best, assuming Artemis is adjusted to increase the turning speed of the LRMs making them track moving targets better within the launcher's own line-of-sight.
Electronic Warfare:
http://mwomercs.com/...warrior-online/
Some tweaking may be required from that post, but that's the general idea to get the Guardian ECM and Beagle Active Probe where they ought to be.
Beagle Active Probe
- 2 slots, 1.5 tons
- This has no restriction as to what mech can equip it.
- This active sensor system automatically gains ‘
- This also enables a close range of 120m detection for shut down mechs.
- It increases max detection range by a moderate amount, enabling a long-range target acquisition.
- Additionally it drastically increases information gathering of a target, helping to identify for both the user and teammates through the C3 system information of what the target has.
Guardian ECM
- 2 slots, 1.5 tons
- This is a restricted piece of equipment, only useable on a few select mech variants.
- The ECM can swap to ECCM to counter enemy ECM in its radius, but loses all other benefits.
- The Guardian ECM is able to work for a radius of 180m
- Beagle Active Probes within the 180m ECM field do not work and are jammed.
- ECM jams enemy ‘
- It adds a large amount of time to any missile locks that can be gained by line-of-sight
- It has a random chance every 10-15 seconds to cut out and break an enemy target lock under its ECM
- Prevents any info acquisition about the mech under ECM, preventing identification of weaakened or damaged parts
NARC Missile Beacon
- 2 slots, 3 tons
- Range is increased to 400m IS and 600m Clan
- The Missile beacon lasts the duration of the match (or say 70 seconds?)
- NARC enables indirect target locks
- It does not work with ARTEMIS for mounting or its own use - think like Streaks here
Target Acquisition Gear
- 1 slot, 1 ton
- Enables indirect target locks on mechs udner ECM so long as the TAG user mech is outside the ECM field
ARTEMIS IV
- Adds 1 slot and 1 ton per launcher that can use it
- Drastically reduces the lock acquisition speed on most targets
- Increases missile turning and tracking abilities
That is what I'd do at least. Mechanics are already in the game, it should mostly be just some number changing - fine points about the hassle with ECM however, but that would be better for everyone I think.
The pace of the game is set more or less, a mech may need a good 30 seconds to a minute to be shot to death on a one-on-one if not more and overall feel (or at least the appearance of it to me) seems more like Battletech Lore, but could easily play and act like Mechwarrior for most appearances sake.
All of it as best I understand are mechanics, rules and mostly numbers already established ans existing in the game already.
The heat system becomes manageable with inherit penalties that can be avoided.
Weapons become balanced and more variety can be used rationally.
Damage is mitigated and controlled setting the pace of the game.
Electronic Warfare operates the way it ought to so it enables line-of-sight fights to proceed without frustration.
Overall, I think its simple and straightforward way to make the game enjoyable for everyone without really screwing over it all. And it uses the existing mechanics of the game with as little hassle as possible.
May edit more for some missed info if it occurs to me.
Edited by Unbound Inferno, 18 July 2013 - 10:00 PM.
