91 replies to this topic

[Medicine Man]

You guys need to fix this. I don't give a crap what the community says LRMS are junk now. Really missiles have been junk since the ECM came out.

Why should I have to feel like I made a huge mistake picking the catapult as my founder mech because you guys can't get the mechanics right?

The main problem is that it's almost impossible to keep a lock at long range because of terrain and ECM. Since the missiles fly so incredibly slowly they are very easy to dodge even if you do hold the lock at long range.

So in fact they are not LRM's at all. They are at best MRM's. I spent the tonnage and money for an artemis system and am completely underwhelmed by it's performance. I could not be any further underwhelmed.

You guys need to increase the missile speed and not try to force me to buy any bullcrap modules to fix this problem. I have seen slingshot fired rocks fly faster than these missiles. It's total junk.

[GODzillaGSPB]

You should change your play-style. Wait until the brawl is on, then get out of cover and shoot at those you have direct line of sight (LOS) on. Since they're in the fight, they can't easily evade you. At the same time you actively help win the brawl.

When there's no brawl you need to get an angle on them. ECM is hardly as numerous as it was a few months ago. Try to flank them (try not to do it alone though), get LOS, shoot.

Yes, the days of racking LRM kills from cover are over. You have to adapt I'm afraid, they wont make LRMs into the fire and forget weapons they used to be and that's good news. At least for me...sorry. ^^

[AvariciA]

It isn't change play-style issue. LRM's always hit in TC.
Hit boxing may be fix. It isn't normal destroy TC every matches by LRM boats.

[PanzerMagier]

Nothing to see here people, someone who says LRM's are underpowered is probably also complaining about how they nerfed his quad ppc boat or dual ac20 jager.

[Otto Cannon]

I like LRMs how they are now. Having said that though, ECM should never have affected them in the first place.

[Sheraf]

Look like some still don't like LRM hit your CT more, think of it, do you prefer LRM to hit your shoulders? I know I would love that

[Dracol]

And someone just started a thread saying lrms are op.... they must be balanced just right then.

[R Razor]

Ehh, I average 3 - 5 kills a match with my LRM Stalker when I'm grouped and 2-3 a match when pugging and it's rare that I have under 5 assists in any match.............suspect the missiles are fine and it's you that sucks.

Edited by R Razor, 20 July 2013 - 08:53 AM.

[Coralld]

LRMs suck? Hmm... I should let my friend know that his LRM boat is crap and should get rid of it even though he used that mech to save my [redacted] countless times or the times when I acted as bait to lure enemies out from behind cover so he can take a dump on them with his missiles. I should also tell him that when he and another friend in our unit paired up, one in a LRM boat and another in a pure spotter mech, and the two of them teaming up and killing over half the enemy team in several games really doesn't count sense LRMs clearly suck as per the OP.

Edited by miSs, 20 July 2013 - 01:19 PM.
circumventing word filter

[Sybreed]

LRMs are either junk or way too good:

Fire at a target facing you = CT cored in 2 salvos.

Fire at a target moving perpendicular to you = 15% of your missiles will hit and deal very little damage.

[Ngamok]

Sybreed, on 20 July 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:

LRMs are either junk or way too good:

Fire at a target facing you = CT cored in 2 salvos.

Fire at a target moving perpendicular to you = 15% of your missiles will hit and deal very little damage.

And the closer you get the more they can't avoid the missiles hitting them. I lvoe when people try to max range me with missiles. Just means I have enough time to back up under cover and watch them land in front of me or hit the guy behind me who loves to hump my rear no matter where I move.

[Barantor]

Part of the problem is the catapult itself. With little left to defend itself with when it has LRMs and no arms or turn speed to speak of it gets chewed up by lights and mediums that can brawl it down when close.

And that is the thing, you need to get between 200-500m for the LRMs to really shine, line of sight preferred and tag is even better.

To this effect a medium is going to have more maneuverability to get in that range and be able to run out the brawlers and the assaults carrying LRMs will have enough back up weapons to still be effective when they have to close distance.

Catapults excelled back in close beta when they could be fairly static artillery pieces and the LRMs did a lot more damage, but now that LRMs are in a good spot it makes the catapult a bad mech to boat them in because of it's lack of mobility (especially when stock or not maxed out mech tree).

I've been meaning to try some large lasers or something on the cat, maybe that will help... dunno.

[Shadey99]

I have mastered catapults and owned all four types. In general what makes LRMs good are 2 things: People out in the open and away from their team. Massive numbers of them. My 2xLRM15 builds get tons of assists, but few kills (simply not enough damage).

My 2xLRM20 A1 can get a couple kills, but even a medium mech (like a hunchie) in good range (500m) and in the open is 6+ barrages (40x6=240 missiles fired) to achieve a kill. Now if it was my K2 Cat, I could fire 2-3 2xPPC barrages and he would be dead... Or My 2A Cicada with it's 2xLL + 4xML would take about the same. My C1 Cat runs 2xER LL + 2xLRM15s & has artemis and tag, I often don't do more than soften them up with the LRMs and then move in for the kill with lasers.

Now if I scale this up and drop barrages of say... 50 or 60 LRMs at a time (Stalker or LRM only A1) I could probably drop the required number of barrages to kill, but not missiles.

All and all, since the game doesn't reward assists nearly as much as kills and the Catapult is a support mech first (outside the K2 which can be a mild brawler or ok sniper)... It's often more rewarding to go use something else. I don't really like the way it seems to take a LRM boat focused only on LRMS or an assault mech chasis full of launchers to make LRMs effective.

[Barantor]

Shadey you need to try a Trebuchet then, the mobility lets you get close enough to the brawls to drop a tag on something and with artemis on two lrm15s you can chew through them fairly fast. The treb still has enough slots (and arms) to be able to mount some energy weapons as backup when things get too close.

The catapult is a distinctive target and with the cockpit being so central and huge it gets taken out fairly easy. Lights know what they are going to get when they go after you in a pult.

[Doc Sunshine]

Maybe you need to tweak your build. I switched my C4 to 4x LRM10s, and it has been completely out of bubblegum ever since. I do WAY better with LRMs than I ever do with PPCs.

[Allen Ward]

I also do most damage and cbills/xp with my 2x20(A)LRMCatapult, using Tag whenever I can (often you can't use it). I agree, that LRMs are flawed in a way, but they have been like this since 1984 actually Long Range Missiles that can't fly further than 1.000m. LOL. And that travel at subsonic speed LOL twice. I wish LRMs would spread more (yes, more misses and more samage spread over the target) AND travel much faster. If you can't tag it - any light mech can outrun your missile barrages - that's a bad joke. Other mechs will stay behind cover or only come out for a short moment, just enough for you to lock on and fire. As soon as the bloody voice calls "Incoming" they take a step back into cover and you just wasted ammo. This has become a valid play style.

The other thing is the Catapult chassis. Once known to be one of the best LRM support models, MWO has totally degraded it by allowing bigger chassis to mount more LRMs. Stalkers and Highlanders can carry much more and their barrages are really deadly (although even they need to keep target lock, too). And they can not be killed so easily by a single light mech who finds your Catapult "hiding" in the backyard.

Surprisingly, I do best with my Catapult, as long as my team has a scout or anyone who knows how to hit the R button. As those people seem to become rarer everyday, it becomes harder and harder to play an LRM Catapult. With a decent spotter, I can easily do 3-4 kills in a game and deal a fair amount of damage (a kill actually means nothing, usually you are the lucky guy that scratches off the last bit of armor, while others already have died shooting that mech into pieces for you, so don't put too much value in a kill).

The problem is: due to low missile speed and very short on-lock times you have to get closer than 500m to your targets. That brings you into a very dangerous zone, as enemy mechs can close in on you in seconds. If you stay further behind, you risk wasting ammo and being attacked by a light oder medium mech who can easily find you when you use TAG and will kill you as you are too far behind your team. So playing an LRM Catapult is a gamble, if you are lucky and no one spots you (and they go for the LRMs first) you can do well. But one Raven or Cent is enough to take you out in moments if they can get through to you (which isn't that hard if you run a fast mech).

Edited by Allen Ward, 20 July 2013 - 02:47 PM.

[RagenBull]

I think lrms are finially in a good state. lets face it they do not need all that much skill to use.

[KuruptU4Fun]

RagenBull, on 20 July 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

I think lrms are finially in a good state. lets face it they do not need all that much skill to use.

Skill will always be debatable simply because people think that if you fire them they will hit. What LRM users do have to have is patience and the ability to use position to their advantage without repercussion. That my friend is the groundwork for the "skill" you seem to think using them doesn't have.

[Khobai]

Its all relative. LRMs are only junk because PPCs are better. Nerf PPCs and suddenly LRMs arnt so bad anymore.

[KuruptU4Fun]

Khobai, on 20 July 2013 - 02:56 PM, said:

Its all relative. LRMs are only junk because PPCs are better. Nerf PPCs and suddenly LRMs arnt so bad anymore.

But with either of those platforms, with those who have skill, are effectively more deadly as long as the changed made to them aren't overly dramatic.