11 replies to this topic

[DeadlyNerd]

Elo is used to compare 2 solo players in a 1v1 match. Anything more than 1v1 won't result in a balanced match.

We're better off pairing up PuGs by kdr or wlr.

If Elo really needs to stay, it should only be kept for groups of 4 or 8 players where members don't change. That means that Elo rating is calculated for the group as a whole and not each individual member, just like WoW arena system.
That way those groups become single entities and Elo can be used to pair them up. Sure, when PuGing 4 man groups will be paired up 2v2, but even if the match has a chance of being unbalanced, that's a far smaller possibility than for 8 individual players against 8 individual players.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 20 July 2013 - 01:20 PM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

ELO is for solo play, so you have it reversed as it should be removed from team play.

[DeadlyNerd]

James The Fox Dixon, on 20 July 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

ELO is for solo play, so you have it reversed as it should be removed from team play.

Sigh... you didn't get it even after I explained the whole situation. I heard omega 3 oils are good for your brain.

[James The Fox Dixon]

DeadlyNerd, on 20 July 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

Sigh... you didn't get it even after I explained the whole situation. I heard omega 3 oils are good for your brain.

I read your post and thought it was stupid, but I replied appropriately.

ELO will never work for team games that have the amount of customization MWO has. It does work great for solo games that has full customization.

I heard that criticism is good for the soul and building character.

[Amsro]

James The Fox Dixon, on 20 July 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

I read your post and thought it was stupid, but I replied appropriately.

ELO will never work for team games that have the amount of customization MWO has. It does work great for solo games that has full customization.

I heard that criticism is good for the soul and building character.

Elo would work with 8mans or soon to be 12 mans as the entire team works as one. Easy to be consistent.

Elo in solo pug matches rolls dice with your opponents and team mates and you have ZERO control over the result. How can you be organized by something you have no control over?

Elo is clearly not working for this game as implemented.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Amsro, on 20 July 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

Elo would work with 8mans or soon to be 12 mans as the entire team works as one. Easy to be consistent.

Elo in solo pug matches rolls dice with your opponents and team mates and you have ZERO control over the result. How can you be organized by something you have no control over?

Elo is clearly not working for this game as implemented.

As you said it yourself that ELO is not working in this game. This only lends support to my statement that it doesn't work for team games with full customization.

[OneEyed Jack]

Removing Elo from the MM would accomplish nothing except to make the matches far more random than they already are. If you can't understand that, or think it would be an improvement, then you wouldn't understand an explanation, either.

[AntiCitizenJuan]

Elo clearly doesnt work considering the numerous times just today that I've had 4+ teammates score less than 100 damage.

I understand you can have off games, but these people are not doing what even mildly capable players are supposed to do.

[ZonbiBadger]

DeadlyNerd, on 20 July 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

Elo is used to compare 2 solo players in a 1v1 match. Anything more than 1v1 won't result in a balanced match.

We're better off pairing up PuGs by kdr or wlr.

If Elo really needs to stay, it should only be kept for groups of 4 or 8 players where members don't change. That means that Elo rating is calculated for the group as a whole and not each individual member, just like WoW arena system.
That way those groups become single entities and Elo can be used to pair them up. Sure, when PuGing 4 man groups will be paired up 2v2, but even if the match has a chance of being unbalanced, that's a far smaller possibility than for 8 individual players against 8 individual players.

:'(

[Unbound Inferno]

ELO should be removed. Period.

Horrendous system that really isn't helping anyone.

[FunkyFritter]

ELO isn't a great system for games like this, but there aren't any better alternatives. When you drop alone the other 7 players on your team cause very high variance, that's going to cause mismatches regardless of the algorithm used.

[DeadlyNerd]

OneEyed Jack, on 20 July 2013 - 06:55 PM, said:

Removing Elo from the MM would accomplish nothing except to make the matches far more random than they already are. If you can't understand that, or think it would be an improvement, then you wouldn't understand an explanation, either.

Just like the first narrow minded fellow I had to explain the situation to, you don't get it.

Elo rating works for 1v1 situations ONLY. It DOES NOT balance 2 teams of 8 players out of randomly chosen 16.
It's because:

• Players wont be matched by their Elo rating, but the whole group's average Elo rating.
  
• There's no guaranty that, even if the 2 groups were mirror images, equal players would be pitted against each other.
  
• Chess is only played 1v1. This isn't chess.

edit: Mods had no right to delete this.

James The Fox Dixon, on 20 July 2013 - 01:55 PM, said:

I read your post and thought it was stupid, but I replied appropriately.

ELO will never work for team games that have the amount of customization MWO has. It does work great for solo games that has full customization.

I heard that criticism is good for the soul and building character.

If you read my post then you would've realized that I covered your "teamplay" in the 4 and 8man groups section.
PuGing isn't teamplay, it's 8 random players pitted against another 8 random players, everyone pretty much acting as solo entities.

Your "stupid" argument is a bit ironic here, although I'm not sure you're able to understand why.

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 21 July 2013 - 01:19 AM.