419 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Camping=Defensive play style. Frowned upon
Capping=Stealthy play style. Frowned upon
Death Match=Pointless fighting. The choice of the masses.

10%-15% of Matches end in a Cap. Stop complaining. Just Stahp!

[Curccu]

loads of XP in less than 3minutes there you go, good point?

Edited by Curccu, 19 October 2013 - 05:16 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Depends on what you are trying to say. I have earned less than that fighting an losing!

[Curccu]

Well Yesterday while me and my lance was leveling up them locusts and we got lovely map like mordor, just run to enemy base with 4 lights and take it, easy fast XP and don't have to play mordor. I'm pretty sure I got 600+ XP that way (with premium).

[Joseph Mallan]

If you are in a Locust I agree. You are the lightest weakest Mech in the game. Speed is your primary weapon, and "stealing" a win your best option. I have no problem with your thinking at all.

[Curccu]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 October 2013 - 05:22 AM, said:

If you are in a Locust I agree. You are the lightest weakest Mech in the game. Speed is your primary weapon, and "stealing" a win your best option. I have no problem with your thinking at all.

Specially unleveled locust, when it's fully elited it gets way better.

[Mavairo]

To the OP, if you are one of the guys, my buddies and I capped last night on Terra Therma... or Crimson straits (whatever it's called. Red Water map.)

Perhaps you would have been better served, by sending more than 2 light mechs back to base to deal with us.

Perhaps your big, slow, torpid Fatlases, and other assorted slowbies, would have been better served, making a battle line closer to your base instead of all the way out into the hinterlands.

and in Conquest, perhaps you would have been better served splitting into two or three lances instead of traveling in one giant blob, ponderously moving across the map.

In Short, you cap to Win. You cap because CW, Victory is going to matter as much as destruction of the enemy. You cap, because your team is lighter tonned by far more mobile than your enemies, and because you watched a whole score of pugs walk piecemeal into a meat grinder.

You cap because the other team wasn't bright enough to defend their base, or bases. Or spread out into multiple lances after KNOWING that their enemies are far lighter than they are.

[Straylight]

I cap because I'm a Light pilot, and it's what Lights do. I cap because it's distracting and can often fragment an enemy team, making the kills easier for mine. I cap because I enjoy outmaneuvering and out-thinking my opponent more than I enjoy just beating him senseless.

But mostly, I cap because it ****** off all the people who play big, slow beatsticks and think everyone else should play big, slow beatsticks and that every match should be two lines of big, slow beatsticks standing in front of each other alpha striking as often as possible. That's boring. I don't play games to be bored. If my only recourse for finding entertainment is by annoying the people who are trying to make me bored, I'm okay with that.

You got a problem with the way I play? Then hop in a Jenner and come at me. I'll be at Epsilon or Kappa.

[Kutnarb]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 October 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

There is a large population of the game that actually get TDM 85% of the time or more. So maybe they should be happy that the massive majority of the time they get the game they want. If losing to a cap 15% of the time is causing this much consternation we have some poor sports in this community.

That's basically just saying "deal with it." Read my post again on why that's not a valid argument.

Kutnarb, on 19 October 2013 - 02:21 AM, said:

Whenever you get this issue raised you get a bunch of people jumping all over the OP because he's somehow less of a Mechwarrior than everybody else. I hate to say it but this is the worst online community I've ever experienced. That said, capping is a problem. Basically saying "deal with it" in whatever terms or explanation of gameplay doesn't really cut it because, well, it is a game. Games are played for fun. Maybe not for everyone, but definitely for others. Especially if you want to pay for it/have paid for it. Saying defend it doesn't cut it either for other reasons mentioned above. And if you're in a pug and decide to defend it yourself you're still screwed because hit registration doesn't work. Been there a million times myself. Defend the base...2 lights come in. They stand in front of you absorbing everything you can bring to bear and just keep machine gunnin you in the nuts.

There is a large population of this community that would love a straight up deathmatch game mode. This is evidenced by the very fact that this topic keeps coming up so much. But there's the problem of annoyances with light mechs at the end. Definitely would be a problem.

So why not add a game mode that is of the king of the hill variety? If you're concerned about it being a cap rush and only fighting on one part of the map or if you're concerned that it doesn't fit with the role playing so many like to do, here's a solution:

Whatever ship/resource/comms equipment to get off planet is going to be dropped somewhere for one of the teams. The other team knows of the equipment and needs to get it for themselves to get off planet or whatever. So you have two teams in the same general vicinity sluggin it out until the {Scrap} drops...say like 5 min or something. After 5 min the cap point drops and then you can try to maneuver to cap it or continue to fight.

You could engage the enemy at the beginning from varying position etc, and you wouldn't have a cap rush at the beginning, and you would have a way to stop a light from shutting down to wait out the timer.


And I have yet to have someone give me a good reason for not including a simple game mechanic like deathmatch/king of the hill etc. It's a game...you want people to play your game and give you money...listen to your customers. Want to know why so many people have stopped playing? This is one of those reasons.

I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why this wouldn't work. I submit that if you're going to be nasty (I'm not talking directly to you Joseph Mallan) about what a large population in this game desires, then you're the one with the problem...not them.

If you're worried about it screwing up your CW or whatever, then make it not count towards CW. Some people just want to melt faces with their 15 minutes of free time. That's also why capping irritates some people so much. Say you only have 30 minutes to play around before having to go do something and you get 3 cap rush games in a row when you wanted to slug it out for some fun.

So tell me again...why exactly would adding this type of game mode be the end of the world?

[Ensaine]

IceSerpent, on 20 July 2013 - 04:23 PM, said:

Aeten, your main mistake is that you apprently think that people care about c-bill/xp rewards. Only new players do and only for a few weeks. Everybody who has been playing longer than that is practically swimming in those "rewards", so the only thing that matters is win/loss.

^ This is the issue, period. Greedy stat grabbers. They could care less about you and your needs. Problem is, the core game mechanic allows this to happen.

PGI likes to piecemeal things to a point where the game has all kinds of holes in it.

PGI's fail aside, you can't change the 12 year old mentality regarding their precious W/L ratio, or ELO ranking. They'd urinate on their own shoes or push their own mother down a flight of stairs just to get that win. Funny thing is, less than half will be able to maintain their 'stats' once the real game comes, if ever. Getting a high W/L or ELO through capping is NOT maintainable once organized 12 mans actually commence, with a Lance dedicated to defense. Then what?

The stat kiddies don't care about you, how many C-Bills you need, how many mechs you don't have, or the fact you are saving for your first XL engine. They've been playing longer than you, and do have xx-millions, and 30 mechs in their stable. They got to play when the C-Bills payout was significantly higher.

And now, YOU, the newer player, are in their way. Prepare to get trampled as they run to a box. You'll get back at them though, as like I said, half at least won't be able to contend once they meet solid, organized resistance, due to all that capping, and lack of actual mech piloting and fighting.

I have xx Millions, I have 10+ mechs in my stable. And I could care less about W/L, ELO, or any other acronym ...... I play Mechwarrior to kill other people in big stompy robots.

I play to the end, I don't disconnect when I die, as I like to spectate to see what to do, and what NOT to do, in different situations. To see what works, and what doesn't. < THIS is what Mechwarrior is all about. Not running and standing in a box.

I end up on a cap about 1 in 40 games, only when a chunk of PUGS are already on the cap, and when I'm near enough, OR, when it's 11-x and the last guy is being evasively cute, with no apparent goal.

These guys are taking the easy route to 'stats' exploiting PUG players. Let them if they must. The table will turn on them eventually, and their weaknesses will float to the top rather quickly.

[Orodain]

End capturetech in assault mode please

[Ghogiel]

Ensaine, on 20 October 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

^ This is the issue, period. Greedy stat grabbers. They could care less about you and your needs. Problem is, the core game mechanic allows this to happen.

PGI likes to piecemeal things to a point where the game has all kinds of holes in it.

PGI's fail aside, you can't change the 12 year old mentality regarding their precious W/L ratio, or ELO ranking. They'd urinate on their own shoes or push their own mother down a flight of stairs just to get that win. Funny thing is, less than half will be able to maintain their 'stats' once the real game comes, if ever. Getting a high W/L or ELO through capping is NOT maintainable once organized 12 mans actually commence, with a Lance dedicated to defense. Then what?

The stat kiddies don't care about you, how many C-Bills you need, how many mechs you don't have, or the fact you are saving for your first XL engine. They've been playing longer than you, and do have xx-millions, and 30 mechs in their stable. They got to play when the C-Bills payout was significantly higher.

And now, YOU, the newer player, are in their way. Prepare to get trampled as they run to a box. You'll get back at them though, as like I said, half at least won't be able to contend once they meet solid, organized resistance, due to all that capping, and lack of actual mech piloting and fighting.

I have xx Millions, I have 10+ mechs in my stable. And I could care less about W/L, ELO, or any other acronym ...... I play Mechwarrior to kill other people in big stompy robots.

I play to the end, I don't disconnect when I die, as I like to spectate to see what to do, and what NOT to do, in different situations. To see what works, and what doesn't. < THIS is what Mechwarrior is all about. Not running and standing in a box.

I end up on a cap about 1 in 40 games, only when a chunk of PUGS are already on the cap, and when I'm near enough, OR, when it's 11-x and the last guy is being evasively cute, with no apparent goal.

These guys are taking the easy route to 'stats' exploiting PUG players. Let them if they must. The table will turn on them eventually, and their weaknesses will float to the top rather quickly.

www.evilpremade.com doesn't care about PUGs needs. They just pad their stats by playing to win.

GGCLOSE

[Farix]

Ensaine, on 20 October 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

^ This is the issue, period. Greedy stat grabbers. They could care less about you and your needs. Problem is, the core game mechanic allows this to happen.

Pot, kettle, black. Greedy c-bill grabbers complain about greedy stats grabbers. Of course the former group gets their way over 80% of the time, but still find it necessary to complain about the less than 20% of the time they don't get their way.

Edited by Farix, 20 October 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[Zerberus]

FOr me it`s gotten to the point where the specific point of capping has become to **** off or annoy people that like to ***** and moan for months on end about the same thing being lame but never even consider adaptation or using the tools at hand, much less the buffs/ nerfs that were given to them after months of whining.

As such, I now always try to cap on assault, regardless of mech or tactical situation. Either start to learn or continue to lose. Simply because shooting stompy robots is fun, but watching grown men cry like babies over a game round after round after round has become even more enjoyable.

If I got to your base in a 7ERPPC /2AC5 Battlemaster that runs 35 to boot, your team`s fail is ultimate and you deserve the humiliation of an 80 pt alpha that the ultimate cheesejoke is about to thrust through your rear torso.


Long story short, my fun (and essentially my job as your enemy) is your ruined day... whether I ruined it by tearing you limb from limb in an atlas, sticking my JM-DD in your back and pulling the trigger, raining on your parade and everyone elses w /lrms, or capping the base.... I will always choose the method that allows me to ruin the most days with the least effort.

And THAT combined with 11 other people generally trying to do the same thing usually leads to conditions that are conducive to me going into Charlie Sheen mode, "WINNING!"

Edited by Zerberus, 20 October 2013 - 05:51 AM.

[Captain Stiffy]

c 'resurrection' thread

instead of posting yet another

I want to know the devs answer to this.

Edited by Captain Stiffy, 02 November 2013 - 10:12 PM.

[Ferrocity]

Haven't read the whole thread, too lazy

What about making capture an optional objective? Getting all resources or capping the enemy base will result in larger XP/C-Bill bonuses or other combat bonuses.

For example, capping the enemy base will give your theam 100-200 extra XP or 20.000 C-Bills at the end, but the game still continues until the time is up or one team is down.
Or a damage bonus for the capping team/damage reduction for the capped team.
Ammunition refill if all resources have been gathered.
And so on...

This way you would need 3 "teams": 1 defending the base, 1 capping/attacking the enemy base and 1 brawling/sniping/lrming(?) somewhere in between.

Blabla, my 2 cents.

PS: I have nothing against capping, it's a valid method for winning a match (until something like deathmatch is implemented)

[Slepnir]

reasons for a cap win..............1.See win option #1 in your mission start, its in the rules, not using it is your choice...............2.your teammates who did massive damage like it better when your team is getting curb stomped and you pull off a cap win giving them more money...............3.light trolling. suckering the enemy fast movers to come to defend cap so you can kill them easier.......................4.pulling a victory out of the jaws of defeat............5.breaking up and causing confusion in the enemy team............................6. last and not least of all is the QQing it causes. "tear collector online" let the nerd gamer rage begin.

[Joseph Mallan]

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

Except that those enemy lights have screwed themselves as well.

How? They won after all, won't they be rewarded???

NOT AT ALL!

Everyone loses. You get some points for damage and kills, but ultimately it's just not that much. The light mechs get base victory points and not much more. You probably never even see each other. What does this add to the game? In the current state of things, especially on big maps like Alpine, there is no risk and no reward for lights to cap. No one can oppose them, but at the same time, they only get a hollow victory.

This also made me completely give up any chance of buying the $20 Phoenix package just to receive a ****** locust. 20 tons with terrible hardpoints and a small, undercooling engine is just pointless. It would only be good for capping, which, is rather pointless.

Capping is a victory condition, accept it as the >15% of the time you don't get to kill everything in your path.

Kutnarb, on 19 October 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

That's basically just saying "deal with it." Read my post again on why that's not a valid argument.




I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why this wouldn't work. I submit that if you're going to be nasty (I'm not talking directly to you Joseph Mallan) about what a large population in this game desires, then you're the one with the problem...not them.

If you're worried about it screwing up your CW or whatever, then make it not count towards CW. Some people just want to melt faces with their 15 minutes of free time. That's also why capping irritates some people so much. Say you only have 30 minutes to play around before having to go do something and you get 3 cap rush games in a row when you wanted to slug it out for some fun.

So tell me again...why exactly would adding this type of game mode be the end of the world?

A large percentage of games (85%) end in a brawl. Why do we need to remove a mere 15% so you an I get a scrap every time? Sorry but in the case of Capping Yes deal with 15% of the time we will get capped.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 04 November 2013 - 05:45 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

Capping is awesome because it disrupts the other teams formation and forces their hand.

If you cap they have to either split or attack more agressivley with a counter cap if they are close enough.

Constantly capping will ultimately lead to ppl finally realizing that they cant just wander about but have to defend the base.

It is also a lot of fun specifically it frustrates all those players that just dont care about base and thus get frustrated for early losses and small rewards. Those emotions are just funny and it makes me smile.

Cant help it.

[Vodrin Thales]

Kutnarb, on 19 October 2013 - 10:32 PM, said:

That's basically just saying "deal with it." Read my post again on why that's not a valid argument.




I'm still waiting for someone to tell me why this wouldn't work. I submit that if you're going to be nasty (I'm not talking directly to you Joseph Mallan) about what a large population in this game desires, then you're the one with the problem...not them.

If you're worried about it screwing up your CW or whatever, then make it not count towards CW. Some people just want to melt faces with their 15 minutes of free time. That's also why capping irritates some people so much. Say you only have 30 minutes to play around before having to go do something and you get 3 cap rush games in a row when you wanted to slug it out for some fun.

So tell me again...why exactly would adding this type of game mode be the end of the world?

Deathmatch is a much easier game mode to troll in. You will see some players realize that their team is losing and head for a seldom used part of the map and shut down, forcing everyone to wait for the 15 minute timer to run out. Deathmatch will also worsen the overload of heavy and assault mechs we see now. One of the few really good reason to bring lighter, more mobile mechs over heavier alternatives is to cap and prevent caps. Take that away and drops get really heavy.

The bottom line is that most maps have at most two good alternate approaches to you cap. If you did not bother to cover both of them, you can have a problem. Split your forces a bit or stay relatively close to your cap and the problem is solved.