419 replies to this topic

[Farix]

Mystere, on 22 July 2013 - 06:45 AM, said:

Capping used to have bigger rewards. The problem was that many teams just rushed to bases and deliberately avoided fights. Lowering the rewards reduced somewhat the zero-battle games. As such, I think rewards for capping are fine as they are.

But then again, I use a different currency for rewarding caps: tears. I cap for the vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that it generates.

Winning use to provided much bigger rewards as well. But when ECM came out, things became more complicated as teams turtled their way around the map instead of spreading out and looking for the enemy. If a mech found itself outside of the ECM bubble, it was be the subject of an LRM apocalypse. Because of the ECM turtling, teams began missed each other more frequently and matches became "race to the base" as a result. However, now that ECM is much less effective, the turtling isn't as big of a problem.

[AvatarofWhat]

When they first took away base capping rewards I was all for it. Base capping should be used later in the game, after at least some fighting has gone down IMO.(its a good way to win a game where the rest of your team got stomped and you have little chance otherwise) When I saw that people were still rushing for cap and avoiding each other, I assumed that those people did not realize that you got nothing for capping. Now many months later I realize that some people still dont care and will waste 3-5 minutes of my life every time going straight for cap. Don't get me wrong Ill try to stop it when I can but when your entire team is moving up, staying behind is equal to suicide(or maybe youll just miss all the fun on guard for a base cap that never happens), and a lot of times you just cant get back in time to stop 2 spiders with cap accelerators.(More of a problem on the larger maps).

Since no cap rewards seem to have had less then the desired effect on stopping a cap during the first 5 minutes of the game, just bring them back, at the very least it'll make it so I don't feel I just wasted a bunch of time. On a map like alpine all it takes is one jenner to ruin a good brawl that took 4 minutes for everyone to get into position. Everyone's fighting and having fun and then bam...game over. Win or lose at that point I dont care, if I want to be super serious about winning I'll play 8-man, otherwise I just want to kill some mechs.

Really they should just add a king-of the hill mode(Maybe with the hill switching spots every couple of minutes? Maybe a random location is chosen at the start of every match?). That way rather the go around each other to get to the objective both teams are actually forced to fight over it. In fact implementing such a mode is so simple that I should slap PGI upside the head for not having implemented it yet, considering we've been playing the same two modes for months now.

Edited by AvatarofWhat, 22 July 2013 - 07:55 AM.

[hammerreborn]

Aeten, on 20 July 2013 - 03:57 PM, said:

I'm sure you've been in a battle where your tonnage-heavy team is just stomping the **** out of some hapless noobs, when suddenly 2-4 enemy lights jump on your cap and you find yourselves utterly screwed. It probably happened on Alpine.

Except that those enemy lights have screwed themselves as well.

How? They won after all, won't they be rewarded???

NOT AT ALL!

Everyone loses. You get some points for damage and kills, but ultimately it's just not that much. The light mechs get base victory points and not much more. You probably never even see each other. What does this add to the game? In the current state of things, especially on big maps like Alpine, there is no risk and no reward for lights to cap. No one can oppose them, but at the same time, they only get a hollow victory.

This also made me completely give up any chance of buying the $20 Phoenix package just to receive a ****** locust. 20 tons with terrible hardpoints and a small, undercooling engine is just pointless. It would only be good for capping, which, is rather pointless.

Clearly this thread is the point of capping. It creates such glorious QQ.

[Unbound Inferno]

Farix, on 22 July 2013 - 07:53 AM, said:

Winning use to provided much bigger rewards as well. But when ECM came out, things became more complicated as teams turtled their way around the map instead of spreading out and looking for the enemy. If a mech found itself outside of the ECM bubble, it was be the subject of an LRM apocalypse. Because of the ECM turtling, teams began missed each other more frequently and matches became "race to the base" as a result. However, now that ECM is much less effective, the turtling isn't as big of a problem.

I am confused by that part.

ECM's only counters for LRMs right now are TAG, PPC hitting for momentary disruption (which requries being hit) and BAP within 150m.

Far, far too few players equip BAP to see that benefit in a brawl.
PPC being hit requires being spotted and being hit.
TAG requires finding them to TAG.

So I don't see that being less effective.

LRMs are off while ECM is up, and unless you've got seismic sensor an ECM can sneak around without much hassle, spot the enemy and scurry off - and specifically the lights handle it all too well like that.

So, not really less effective as they still do prevent LRMs and can hide a smart player. Which with a small light pack rushing a Base makes cap wins all too easy if an enemy group huddles and is just far enough away.

[Zypher]

There is no point to capping, and community warfare, LMAO.

Let's be real, they have spent months just fixing mech death match, there isn't even a single piece of the community warfare in the game yet, and once there is they will have to spend months tweaking and bug fixing that aspect of the game.

So in the interim, the long interim, capping is stupid other than to troll people. It's not a logical way to encourage people to use lights unless PGI want's trolling to be an option.

The ELO comments are laughable too. So wait, you want to jack up your ELO with win/loss when the capping skill has nothing to do with piloting. When it comes down to an actual engagement, which will happen with you trying to cap from time to time, you are just hurting your team with inflated ELOs.

[Suko]

I'll cap whenever the opportunity presents itself, or to win the match, or just to **** off the enemy team. In short; If you allow me to cap, I will. Oh, and I rarely pilot lights. Usually I'm in a 65-75 ton mech. So it's the enemy team's damn fault if they let me and a friend cap their stupid oil drill-thingy.

[Farix]

Zypher, on 22 July 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

There is no point to capping, and community warfare, LMAO.

Let's be real, they have spent months just fixing mech death match,...

There is no death match in the game. PGI cannot "fix" something that never existed.

Unbound Inferno, on 22 July 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I am confused by that part.

ECM's only counters for LRMs right now are TAG, PPC hitting for momentary disruption (which requries being hit) and BAP within 150m.

Far, far too few players equip BAP to see that benefit in a brawl.
PPC being hit requires being spotted and being hit.
TAG requires finding them to TAG.

You completely forgot about seismic, which renders ECM pretty ineffective.

[Zypher]

Farix, on 22 July 2013 - 08:28 AM, said:

There is no death match in the game. PGI cannot "fix" something that never existed.


You completely forgot about seismic, which renders ECM pretty ineffective.

You know exactly what I am getting at...but no, put on you blinders and pretend this game has more to offer than deathmatch / counterstrike in mechs, call it what you will. This game is getting stale, good combat and fun for sure, but talk about rinse and repeat. If only there were a point to capping there would be a second "real" objective in this game other than to say you won. Arguing that capping really has a point other than trolling a win is just being stubborn or ignorant.

[IceSerpent]

Zypher, on 22 July 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

You know exactly what I am getting at...but no, put on you blinders and pretend this game has more to offer than deathmatch / counterstrike in mechs, call it what you will. This game is getting stale, good combat and fun for sure, but talk about rinse and repeat. If only there were a point to capping there would be a second "real" objective in this game other than to say you won. Arguing that capping really has a point other than trolling a win is just being stubborn or ignorant.

Are you trying to say that there are (or were at any point in time) games with objectives other than to win? That seems to contradict the very definition of the term "game".

[Nicholas Carlyle]

ShadowVFX, on 22 July 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

I'll cap whenever the opportunity presents itself, or to win the match, or just to **** off the enemy team. In short; If you allow me to cap, I will. Oh, and I rarely pilot lights. Usually I'm in a 65-75 ton mech. So it's the enemy team's damn fault if they let me and a friend cap their stupid oil drill-thingy.

See this quote is the problem. I understand why you do it. That's fine.

But no one says "Capping is engaging, and I feel like it really adds depth to the game".

It's always "I love to troll people by capping", which is basically admitting that most people do not enjoy that it is a part of the game, so you use it to abuse them.

I guess there is the "I cap to win" crowd too, but those people are just sad to me. I weep for this game if it's all a bunch of people capping to win loyalty points in CW, because PGI isn't planning to let us actually change things via CW.

[Farix]

Zypher, on 22 July 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

You know exactly what I am getting at...but no, put on you blinders and pretend this game has more to offer than deathmatch / counterstrike in mechs, call it what you will. This game is getting stale, good combat and fun for sure, but talk about rinse and repeat. If only there were a point to capping there would be a second "real" objective in this game other than to say you won. Arguing that capping really has a point other than trolling a win is just being stubborn or ignorant.

Arguing that capping really has no point other than trolling a win is just being stubborn, ignorant, or extremely shortsighted. You want Assault to be Team Death Match, but Assault is not Team Death Match and no amount of complaining will change that.

Can MWO use more game mode? Of course. But PGI is probably waiting until after launch when there is a large enough population to support more game modes.

[Angel of Annihilation]

AvatarofWhat, on 22 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

When they first took away base capping rewards I was all for it. Base capping should be used later in the game, after at least some fighting has gone down IMO.(its a good way to win a game where the rest of your team got stomped and you have little chance otherwise) When I saw that people were still rushing for cap and avoiding each other, I assumed that those people did not realize that you got nothing for capping. Now many months later I realize that some people still dont care and will waste 3-5 minutes of my life every time going straight for cap. Don't get me wrong Ill try to stop it when I can but when your entire team is moving up, staying behind is equal to suicide(or maybe youll just miss all the fun on guard for a base cap that never happens), and a lot of times you just cant get back in time to stop 2 spiders with cap accelerators.(More of a problem on the larger maps).

Since no cap rewards seem to have had less then the desired effect on stopping a cap during the first 5 minutes of the game, just bring them back, at the very least it'll make it so I don't feel I just wasted a bunch of time. On a map like alpine all it takes is one jenner to ruin a good brawl that took 4 minutes for everyone to get into position. Everyone's fighting and having fun and then bam...game over. Win or lose at that point I dont care, if I want to be super serious about winning I'll play 8-man, otherwise I just want to kill some mechs.

Really they should just add a king-of the hill mode(Maybe with the hill switching spots every couple of minutes? Maybe a random location is chosen at the start of every match?). That way rather the go around each other to get to the objective both teams are actually forced to fight over it. In fact implementing such a mode is so simple that I should slap PGI upside the head for not having implemented it yet, considering we've been playing the same two modes for months now.

Change Assault to a Meeting Engagement. One base in the middle of the map....GO!!

[General Taskeen]

So trying to gain a cap vs. a match maker that puts you in a game full of cheese and/or superman players is bad?

I'd rather make munchkins broiling by capping than anything else with comments such as:

"Hurp Durp, fight like man Mech."

"Capping is lame, we beat enemy team 1-7, come out and fight Durp Furp."

Edited by General Taskeen, 22 July 2013 - 01:06 PM.

[Mystere]

General Taskeen, on 22 July 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

So trying to gain a cap vs. a match maker that puts you in a game full of cheese and/or superman players is stubborn, ignorant, and shortsighted?

I'd rather make munchkins broiling by capping than anything else with comments such as:

"Hurp Durp, fight like man Mech."

"Capping is lame, we beat enemy team 1-7, come out and fight Durp Furp."

I think you read him wrong.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Many teams/players will "touch cap to pull and enemy back", if they never actually cap enemies eventually quit sending mechs back knowing it is a bluff, and the tactic is worthess.

Currently the only reason Capping earns so little is because players used to just base race for C-Bills and PGI couldn't figure out how to make teams fight, so they just removed all the benefits for base capping, including the Reward, and more importantly the Repair and Rearm benefit.
Unfortunatley that change removed the primary benefit of light and medium mechs. Which totally broke the concept of Role Warfare and pushed more players to Assault mechs and therefore made more peolple QQ about capping, which is infact the only remaining vestige of Role and Community Warfare that everyone wants so bad.

[Joseph Mallan]

Davers, on 20 July 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

Assault and heavy pilots are the first to cry out `Lights and mediums shouldn`t be able to fight one on one with heavier mechs!`Then they complain, `Capwarrior Online!`when lights and mediums don`t line up like clay pigeons for them.

To correct this. Many Assault and heavy pilots complain but not all of us. If I am defeated by cap I did something wrong not the enemy.

[John Decker]

Purlana, on 22 July 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

Capping is part of the game. Deal with it. If your scouts are to lazy to RTB, it's not our problem.

LOL That was never my point. It's a ludicrous laughable state that even the people that employ the strat admit they do it just to **** people off and because it's funny. That fulfills no useful function to me. I not a little surprised that people arguing the point refuse to acknowledge this on one hand while totally giving into it on the other . You guys know it's just griefing and a huge smoking pile of bs.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

short answer is PGI lacks imagination. We truly only have 1 game mode, where you can kill or cap no matter if you drop in assault or conquest.

[Joseph Mallan]

John Decker, on 22 July 2013 - 02:48 PM, said:

LOL That was never my point. It's a ludicrous laughable state that even the people that employ the strat admit they do it just to **** people off and because it's funny. That fulfills no useful function to me. I not a little surprised that people arguing the point refuse to acknowledge this on one hand while totally giving into it on the other . You guys know it's just griefing and a huge smoking pile of bs.

No Sir, it is not. It is a victory condition in Assault. It is the FIRST condition, It needs to be made as valuable as killing the entire enemy team. Leave your base unprotected you lose all your stuff and lose the game.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 22 July 2013 - 02:53 PM.

[Zylo]

Joseph Mallan, on 22 July 2013 - 02:52 PM, said:

No Sir, it is not. It is a victory condition in Assault. It is the FIRST condition, It needs to be made as valuable as killing the entire enemy team. Leave your base unprotected you lose all your stuff and lose the game.

Now that ECM is far less useful than it was when the cap rewards were reduced, it does make sense to increase the cap rewards.

With higher cap rewards that might even encourage teams to include weight classes other than assaults which could end up with more matches ending in fights rather than caps.