61 replies to this topic

[CobraFive]

So the game has a progression element to it. We know that you have a persistent pilot who will improve in skills in one way or another.

They also said they want to remove the "arms race" from the game, that bigger 'mech are intrinsically 'better', and rather, each weight class has a distinct role to play on the field.

If that's the case, and if all the weight classes were "equal", then there'd be no issue of just being able to start out in an assault 'mech (or the class of your choice).

So what do we unlock then? I'm guessing that we improve performance of specific weapons systems, like increases our accuracy with autocannons, or lockon speed with LRMs... maybe also you need to unlock tonnages as you go? Like anyone can start as an assault pilot, but you only get the 80 tonners, and need to unlock 90 tonners, and 100 tonners. Same for the other classes.

I know its all baseless speculation at this stage, but what to you want to see, and what do you NOT want to see, when you "level up"?

[TheForce]

I think Bryan was quoted saying you can start in a bigger mech if you pay for it up front, or you can start in a smaller mech and work your way up for free. It was in this thread:

http://mwomercs.com/...e-free-to-play/

[Sleipnir]

In truth, so long as it's all balanced I have no issues with any form of "levelling up". The only thing I don't want to see is some mechs (or weapons) being "purchase only". Maybe some nifty tricks, faster levelling, etc. I have no problem with though.

I like the idea of unlocking different tonnages, that's pretty cool. Maybe just unlocking mechs/weapons as you go. Extra ammo slots, new tech, better radar range, better accuracy; I'd expect to see most of those sort of things.

Improving pilot skill maybe? So like, less chance for your mech to be knocked down / reduced sway from incoming shots as your pilot can compensate better for example. There are so many possibilities really.

Like I said though, it's all about the balance. I just don't want to see purchasers getting anything that gives advantage in terms of combat.

The rule should be: Nothing should substitute skill!

[Captain Fabulous]

I don't see why not. I'm all for somebody who doesn't understand how to use an Assault trying to pilot it and failing. Then it'll just become another purple tally mark on my Jenner's cockpit.

[T S Hawk]

I am just going to wait and see how that goes. Because in the board game unless came from good money and what not you didn't get what you always wanted. And if I have to earn my Warhammer then so be it

[CobraFive]

Captain Fabulous, on 09 November 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

I don't see why not. I'm all for somebody who doesn't understand how to use an Assault trying to pilot it and failing. Then it'll just become another purple tally mark on my Jenner's cockpit.

I dunno, I think new players starting in an assault is actually better Personally I think an assault or something big, slow, but with lots of armor and guns, is much easier to pilot then something you need to really dodge and aim on the move. I guess what I'm saying is a bad player in an assault mech actually helps his team more then a bad player in a light mech, you know? While your jenner is going to have purple tally marks on the nose cone, a new player's jenner will have nothing but impact craters



After reading the thread linked in the first reply he does seem to imply that you can earn any 'mech by playing but bigger 'mechs need to be earned/bought. I think this conflicts with the stated intention and does promote the idea of an 'arms race', and wanting to leave behind smaller 'mechs in preference of bigger ones, but I'm not opposed to it. I think it'd be better if we could start in any playstyle that we want, such as close combat heavy fighting, but then we progress within that playstyle (earning bigger and better guns, perhaps, or bonuses to those weapons).

But if the system really is "earn OR buy bigger 'mechs" I'm for it. I'd probably buy one 'mech that really interests me, then earn the rest by playing.

Edited by cobrafive, 09 November 2011 - 04:41 PM.

[Iron Horse]

T.S. Hawk, on 09 November 2011 - 04:32 PM, said:

I am just going to wait and see how that goes. Because in the board game unless came from good money and what not you didn't get what you always wanted. And if I have to earn my Warhammer then so be it

That just gave me a great idea - something like a randomizer when you start the game where you "inherit" 'Mechs, with maybe a higher chance of just getting some money or something. The bigger the 'Mech the lower the odds of getting it, but it would feel like the well-monied players start with better gear (even if they don't know how to use it at first). Just a thought

[Iron Horse]

I agree it would be cool if your could start in an Assault-class 'mech, but the issue then would be resell value (I'm assuming bigger 'mechs will cost more), which would lead to a battlefield flooded with nubs in 100-tonners!

[Captain Fabulous]

cobrafive, on 09 November 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

I dunno, I think new players starting in an assault is actually better Personally I think an assault or something big, slow, but with lots of armor and guns, is much easier to pilot then something you need to really dodge and aim on the move. I guess what I'm saying is a bad player in an assault mech actually helps his team more then a bad player in a light mech, you know? While your jenner is going to have purple tally marks on the nose cone, a new player's jenner will have nothing but impact craters

This is also true. I learned piloting lights and mediums though, so I really don't know that much about piloting assaults besides seeing a few fall down and take a ton of damage because somebody tried to turn too hard on concrete.

cobrafive, on 09 November 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

After reading the thread linked in the first reply he does seem to imply that you can earn any 'mech by playing but bigger 'mechs need to be earned/bought. I think this conflicts with the stated intention and does promote the idea of an 'arms race', and wanting to leave behind smaller 'mechs in preference of bigger ones, but I'm not opposed to it. I think it'd be better if we could start in any playstyle that we want, such as close combat heavy fighting, but then we progress within that playstyle (earning bigger and better guns, perhaps, or bonuses to those weapons).

But if the system really is "earn OR buy bigger 'mechs" I'm for it. I'd probably buy one 'mech that really interests me, then earn the rest by playing.

I feel like a more Battletech-ey approach here would be nice. Buy what you want with what money you start out with, but you aren't going to be able to afford the really really nice assaults until you've ground enough people into the dust. I opt for being able to store up to 3 or 4 mechs in a given garage, and if you lose a mech you lose it. This way, people will be more influenced towards operating the less expensive mechs so they can be replaced easier.

[DFDelta]

I'd prefer to start in some run down and broken piece of scrap metal of my chosen weight class thats only held together by gum and prayers, and then earn my cbills to slowly upgrade to the mech that I want.

So, lets say I choose Assault as my beginning class, so I start with a Victor thats pretty beat up.
Now I can either upgrade that one until I have a perfectly fine Victor in top condition, or I can dump it as fast as possible and buy a pristine new Awesome... or a Zeus, or a Banshee or an Atlas if I want to save my money until I can afford it.

If you had several mech cocoons, then you could even upgrade your starting Victor a little, get some more money and buy a second mech, for example a 40t Clint.

Thats all the progression I'd need.



This is something where we could get back to the different manufaturers for the same type of equipment that are mentioned rather often the last few days. Maybe your starting Victor has a AC20 that was produced from scratch and is a rather makeshift variation. (Imagine a mercenary tech: "Hey, you've lost your AC20, but I think I can build together a new one from those few broken and rusted drac models and the steiner one we found in the dirt 3 weeks ago).

[TheForce]

Iron Horse, on 09 November 2011 - 04:45 PM, said:

That just gave me a great idea - something like a randomizer when you start the game where you "inherit" 'Mechs, with maybe a higher chance of just getting some money or something. The bigger the 'Mech the lower the odds of getting it, but it would feel like the well-monied players start with better gear (even if they don't know how to use it at first). Just a thought

I'd be all over that, but its too hard-core for the newbs isn't it??

[Sartris]

There are some positively awful 3025 era assault mechs. Let people start with them.

[feor]

think it'd be awesome if they actually implemented some of the systems from the Mechwarrior/A Time of War RPGs for this element of it. So yes, you can start in an Assault mech, but you'll pay for it somewhere else, maybe some of your skills will start out lower, or you might have less c-bills to start.

And that's before we get into issues of outfitting and repairing an assault mech. My hope is that repair and modification of a mech will be more realistic than previous mechwarrior games. "You want to completely refit you Atlas from the ground up with an entirely customer weapons load out? Ok, but you're going to have to pilot generic mechs on loan from the company store for the next 5 days while me & my techs go about stripping it out and reloading it."

Quote

There are some positively awful 3025 era assault mechs. Let people start with them.

CGR-1A1 Chargers for everybody!

Edited by feor, 09 November 2011 - 05:04 PM.

[Sleipnir]

There might be something along the lines of specialization for your chosen weight class.

If you think about Battlefield 3 (or any of the previous ones tbh) and think about the kits. You unlock new features for that kit by using it. Perhaps this will be the case with your weight class? So you'd get better accuracy / weapons / whatever for your light mech if that's what you use all the time?

It would certainly encourage people to pick a class and stick to it. It would also remove the weight as being an "arms race" as you could have someone fully specialized in a medium that would be able to rip holes in heavy / assaults.

[airstrik0]

this sounds like nooby in big mech pro in light mech. and the big mech keeps getting there *** handed to them. if it does play out like this i would go for a light mech so i could run circles around the assult mechs and blow off their weapons and then bump them alot for the lols sense they cant hurt me. But i wonder what types of weapons will be the start offs sense almost any weapon could do heavy amounts of damage. a disco ball mech lol

Edited by airstrik0, 09 November 2011 - 05:08 PM.

[DFDelta]

feor, on 09 November 2011 - 05:03 PM, said:

CGR-1A1 Chargers for everybody!

You would not say that if MWO mechs could punch

(If they could I'd name mine 'Captain Falcon')

[rollermint]

It doesn't seem like it. Assault Mechs probably cost a fortune so I don't think a newbie can afford it. But if someone else were to sponsor for it, can they? Well that depends if we can share our CBills with another player. Which I don't think they should allow, its the best way to drive away those pesky Capellan C-Bills farmers.

There is also a balance issue. Players can exploit by starting in an Assault mech, sell it and buy a solid lighter mech and twink it. So I'm in favor of...no. Unless they plug in any loopholes.

You can probably drive a slightly heavier mech...a medium perhaps...but I don't think an Assault. No.

cobrafive, on 09 November 2011 - 04:41 PM, said:

I dunno, I think new players starting in an assault is actually better Personally I think an assault or something big, slow, but with lots of armor and guns, is much easier to pilot then something you need to really dodge and aim on the move.

I actually disagree with that notion somewhat. imho piloting a bigger mech is a lot harder than piloting lightning fast mech. You are slow, cumbersome, your torso twist is ponderous, you are so HUGE that only the worse hopeless shooter can ever miss you. Without support, you are dead.

What you say can be reversed as well...which is harder to shoot at? A slow moving target the size of skyscrapers or a nimble fast moving object thats also very very small?

I learn this from playing WoT too much. IMHO driving the heaviest tank is so much harder than zipping around with a light or medium tank. A dogfight between a fast medium and a Heavy tank, imho, the advantage is actually with that medium.

[airstrik0]

i feel the heavies and medium mechs maybe the more dominant types in this. vultures rule!!

[airstrik0]

rollermint, on 09 November 2011 - 05:31 PM, said:

I actually disagree with that notion somewhat. imho piloting a bigger mech is a lot harder than piloting lightning fast mech. You are slow, cumbersome, your torso twist is ponderous, you are so HUGE that only the worse hopeless shooter can ever miss you. Without support, you are dead.

What you say can be reversed as well...which is harder to shoot at? A slow moving target the size of skyscrapers or a nimble fast moving object thats also very very small?

I learn this from playing WoT too much. IMHO driving the heaviest tank is so much harder than zipping around with a light or medium tank. A dogfight between a fast medium and a Heavy tank, imho, the advantage is actually with that medium.

ssshh the newbies who have no experience dont know that. dont let them know. ill loose an advantage.

[CobraFive]

rollermint, on 09 November 2011 - 05:31 PM, said:

It doesn't seem like it. Assault Mechs probably cost a fortune so I don't think a newbie can afford it. But if someone else were to sponsor for it, can they? Well that depends if we can share our CBills with another player. Which I don't think they should allow, its the best way to drive away those pesky Capellan C-Bills farmers.

There is also a balance issue. Players can exploit by starting in an Assault mech, sell it and buy a solid lighter mech and twink it. So I'm in favor of...no. Unless they plug in any loopholes.

You can probably drive a slightly heavier mech...a medium perhaps...but I don't think an Assault. No.



I actually disagree with that notion somewhat. imho piloting a bigger mech is a lot harder than piloting lightning fast mech. You are slow, cumbersome, your torso twist is ponderous, you are so HUGE that only the worse hopeless shooter can ever miss you. Without support, you are dead.

What you say can be reversed as well...which is harder to shoot at? A slow moving target the size of skyscrapers or a nimble fast moving object thats also very very small?

I learn this from playing WoT too much. IMHO driving the heaviest tank is so much harder than zipping around with a light or medium tank. A dogfight between a fast medium and a Heavy tank, imho, the advantage is actually with that medium.

Of course I agree. In the end the bad player will (should) always lose to a better player, regardless of their 'mechs. That's really the best balance you can hope for. If the bad players in a light 'mech, he gets picked off quick. If he's in an assault 'mech, he can't hit anyone and kamikazes into crossed lines of fire.

I just meant that on a whole, if I was picking teammates, I'd rather have a bad assault then a bad scout. The assault, at least, can soak up hits that the rest of us would've had to take