88 replies to this topic

[EyeDie I]

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

[Mindwipe]

I'd expect a lot of people are like myself and don't select a specific mission type. If I get conquest I get conquest. On some maps such as Forest Colony it's almost always a complete waste of time to cap points, you can deprive your side of a mech in the dust up and even an Atlas can get to a point to cap it after the battle has been decided.

On Alpine or Tourmaline, yeah I agree that some capping has to happen but honestly it can backfire very quickly. If you've played a lot I'm sure you'll know that pretty much every map is played a certain way. It goes that way for lights and capping as well. On Alpine if you start in the high side, a light will almost always go to Kappa while the other side gets Theta. Then it's a crap shoot. Those Mechs will often meet between those points and fight. If its a bad matchup your light can die and you're screwed anyway.

Supporting your lights in their capping there will usually ensure a victory. I've seen good teams slowly work in a circle keeping their backs to their teams lights as the light caps behind him, but within range to support if needed. The usual brawl at Epsi/Theta leaves your lights or cappers completely on their own for Alpine/Tourmaline.

Of course there is also the fact that capping gives pretty much no reward, only doing damage does. So why should I as a light buff your heavy or assault's rewards by ensuring the win as opposed to getting in their and fighting as well. I can often do more damage in the brawl to make more money than if I ran around capping. (XP has long since been meaningless to me).

Personally I for the cap in the hope that CW will make that style of play rewarding, but I can't fault others for not seeing it that way with the current game.

[Vincian]

What for an imprudent question:

Because Lights and fast Mediums like to fight, too?

[SmithMPBT]

I don't run lights much but I see them getting yelled at for capping when there hasn't been a main engagement yet. Basically they cap, no reward. As Mindwipe said, CW should change the dynamic of this.

[Redshift2k5]

Because shooting things is fun. Capping isn't. Of course, better capping leads to a better chance of winning, but not everyone has the same goals in mind when they hit the launch button.

[Hebdomas]

If I'm on one of my jenners (only light I have) I'll normally go try to cap the second point and then head back to the main fight. If I'm not dead after that I'll go (re)cap as needed.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Capping only really matters if:
a) your team killed several enemy mechs, the outcome of the match is uncertain. You cap to get the loot bonus (which is a TON of money IF enemies got killed)
b ) you want to win because winning matters: e.g. Challenges and when Faction Warfare finally gets implemented
c) Your team crushed the enemy team, there are only 1-2 targets left fleeing in terror and you cap so you don't have to chase that lone Spider for 5 minutes.

In any other circumstance capping is a complete waste in Assault. It depends in conquest but winning by resources within 1:30 minutes is not what you want to happen (= no real fighting = no extra cash).

Edited by Ragnar Darkmane, 24 July 2013 - 09:49 AM.

[Padic]

While I tend to agree with you, I do want to point out that running off alone in a light is risky. You might get cornered by two opposing fast-movers and then you're just plain dead. Hooray! The worst is when your assaults misread your intentions and just start following the blue dot on their map. You end up with a team that's completely spread out (and usually across terrible defensive positions). The enemy needs only to pick you off one at a time.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: This is a complicated game. This is a team game. Not everyone is going to play it the same way. You can't blame your team's failures on one person playing differently than how YOU want them to do it.

If you want that kind of control, drop in an 8 man.

[FrDrake]

Because people who play lights like to fight too is the real reason. Winning and losing is just who collects a salvage bonus, and a light who goes to the fight and then loses on points will get more xp/cbills than a light who spent the whole match capping and not much else.

Me personally, I'm there for the win and not personal rewards, I'm sitting on tons of cbills and I've converted a ton of GXP so I don't have anything to grind for except my win/loss stats. I've won tons of games in conquest because I capped and am last man standing.

[Aym]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

why choose conquest and not cap?

Well, how about if they chose "Any"?

[EyeDie I]

i dont own a light but when the spider was the trial i would try to get the caps, then run in and im only talking about conquest.i sometimes end up capping in heavies and assaults.i rarely do assaults and have under 1mill cbills so i need the cash.

i hadnt considered the 'any'

Edited by EyeDie I, 24 July 2013 - 10:01 AM.

[zraven7]

How about because my Jenner and my Raven aren't built for scouting? They are both fighting machines. The Raven is a high-damage sniper, and the Jenner is an F, meaning it's at it's best when it's dropping 30 point alphas into an assaults backside, not running around. I have a spider for scouting.

Just like all heavies and assaults aren't brawlers, all lights aren't scout mechs. We know what we are doing.

[Skydrive]

There are also the light mechs that are as fast as an Atlas, like the Urbie Spider, a Spider 5K with the loadout of an Urbanmech. I have however seen some lights, that while being fast, stay with the bigger guys in Alpine moving towards Epsilon. Sometimes when it is on Any, it might take a few seconds for me to notice the game mode isn't Assault. If I'm the only light and I know the enemy team has multiple lights, depending on the map and where they are I might stay with the heavier mechs, or try and sneak around.

Yesterday in Tourmaline I had a rather good match in my Death's Knell (my fastest mech). We had two other lights I believe. Anyways at first we were ahead in points, but that quickly declined when the rest of my team was dead, and the enemy only lost one mech. I would of tried to cap since they only had one light... if the Jenner wasn't able to keep up with me with his SRM 4 and four Medium Lasers. My only chance was to try and kill the Jenner while evading the other enemy mechs that were converging on me, and at times trying to surround me. Eventually I was able to kill the Jenner with my four Medium Lasers thanks in part to his overheating and the damage me and the other lights did before. Someone on my team said something along the lines of "good job, now go cap". This was my original plan, until I noticed it was too late. The points each team had was above 500 or 600, and I knew I couldn't cap fast enough, so while moving I typed that it was too late, and just continued evading the enemy while hitting them with my lasers. At the end of the match I was being congratulated for how well I did, including those from the other team.
This was a situation where capping in Conquest had no point in the end.

[Elizander]

I cap when I am in lights only to return and find out my team got themselves wiped out in a 7v7 right after I get a node.

[Ph30nix]

personally ill cap and fight in a mix as best i can. but plenty of times i've been royally screwed over especially on maps like alpine or tourmaline. Ill go run around to cap while the rest of the team goes to fight and a few things happen

a. i get killed by the enemy at some points and we win/lose (at least i get to fight)
b. my team gets decimated and im only one left alive depending how long they last i might actually win the match for us by points yet since i didnt fight i end up getting less C-bills and XP then some of the losing team who got to fight.
c. my team ends up decimating the other team and we win before ive even captured a second location and i get even less XP and C-bills (conquest rewards cbills for how many points you have at the end of the 750 to win)

since there is no reward, exp or bonus for capturing points there really isn't an incentive to win by that method, Some people play conquest just because there is no concern of a 2 minute game because enemy fast movers zerged the base.

Again i try to balance capping and fighting but if i get hosed a few matches in a row screw it.

Elizander, on 24 July 2013 - 10:40 AM, said:

I cap when I am in lights only to return and find out my team got themselves wiped out in a 7v7 right after I get a node.

its even funnier when you end up keeping the 1-4 of the enemy lights and fast movers busy and your team ends up getting owned in a 7v4/5/6 match up. ive had games where i kill all the enemy lights (not 3v1 in 1v1 encounters because they split up to cap) and find out i'm the only one who killed anything.

[Sug]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

why choose conquest and not cap?

Because if I run around and take 5 nodes guess what my reward is?

Nothing.


If I stay and help my team fight I'll get yelled at for not capping. If I run around and cap I'll get yelled at for not fighting.

So f it. If I get Conquest I do what makes me the most money. Damage.

Edited by Sug, 24 July 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Tesunie]

Skydrive, on 24 July 2013 - 10:25 AM, said:

Yesterday in Tourmaline I had a rather good match in my Death's Knell (my fastest mech). We had two other lights I believe. Anyways at first we were ahead in points, but that quickly declined when the rest of my team was dead, and the enemy only lost one mech. I would of tried to cap since they only had one light... if the Jenner wasn't able to keep up with me with his SRM 4 and four Medium Lasers. My only chance was to try and kill the Jenner while evading the other enemy mechs that were converging on me, and at times trying to surround me. Eventually I was able to kill the Jenner with my four Medium Lasers thanks in part to his overheating and the damage me and the other lights did before. Someone on my team said something along the lines of "good job, now go cap". This was my original plan, until I noticed it was too late. The points each team had was above 500 or 600, and I knew I couldn't cap fast enough, so while moving I typed that it was too late, and just continued evading the enemy while hitting them with my lasers. At the end of the match I was being congratulated for how well I did, including those from the other team.
This was a situation where capping in Conquest had no point in the end.

I had the same situation as you, different map. I was in the canyons in a Spider. Every time I turned around to try and cap a point, an enemy was nearby. Instead of being praised as the last one standing holding my own against 5 mechs while also trying to cap, I was called a noob, new pilot who was wasting time fighting a Centurion instead of capping (which I was trying to cap). Best part was, as he was insulting me about fighting a Centurion, I was actually running to another cap point instead. That cap point had a Phrat on it, so I engage and ran away again, heading to another cap. That cap had another Cent on it, so I engaged, and ran away to yet another point. Finally ran into an Atlas, the old Phrat and ran no more (engaged, tried to do more damage, and died). I ended up, despite trying to cap the whole game, doing I think second best on my team for damage. I was right under the guy who was calling me all sorts of names. I thought I did well, and was at least moderate to high on the pester scale.

[NecessaryWeevil]

Sug, on 24 July 2013 - 11:09 AM, said:

Because if I run around and take 5 nodes guess what my reward is?

Nothing.


If I stay and help my team fight I'll get yelled at for not capping. If I run around and cap I'll get yelled at for not fighting.

So f it. If I get Conquest I do what makes me the most money. Damage.

Exactly this.

If I'm feeling altruistic (and I often am), I may try to cap. But if I cap and we lose, I get nothing. If I cap and we win, I get shouted at on the forums for 'ruining the game' for guys whose mechs can't top 50 kph.

[Biplane]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

Timing is important for capping. This is especially true if you are the only light on your team. If I immediately run out there and start capping everything, nothing is effectively gained. You are likely to be caught alone and severely damaged or killed for a very slight advantage, which is immediately nullified when they cap it back from you.

Depending upon the map size, different strategies take priority. For a large map like Alpine, I either form a pack with other light Mechs (if there are others available), begin capping as a group, and hopefully find the enemy fast Mechs and annihilate them, allowing free capping, or I wait to determine the enemy's capping capability, and react to offset it as best as I can.

Smaller maps, it's usually a matter of supporting the big guys, making sure they never have to fight a fair fight, turning every fight possible into a two on one in our favor, until the enemy capping total hits about the 300 point mark. Then I evaluate where the enemy is likely NOT to be (often behind their main force), and begin capping the "easiest" enemy points.

In all situations, if it looks like a win by wipeout is possible, I will assist with that effort, so long as the enemy doesn't lead by more than a single point.

In short: stay close to big friends when possible, and sneak points when it's safe to do so. An enemy force without lights cannot catch you, so make sure they are deprived of their lights in a quick (but safe) manner. Larger enemies tend to stay in fights once they commit to them, so once the PPCs start flying and Mechs start dying is the time to start worrying about capping. Before that, it's just a waste of time, and more often than not, a waste of your Mech. Finally, a win by wipeout is both quicker AND more rewarding, as well as much more fun, so if it seems possible, it should be the primary goal.

Edited by Biplane, 25 July 2013 - 08:12 AM.

[Hayden]

I cap frequently. To my mind that's one of the principal jobs of a light 'mech: harassing the "rear lines". This not only contributes to a possible victory and denies the enemy points, but can help to divide the enemy team's attention. Of course, I pay close attention to my surroundings (and map!) as I do this, to avoid entangling situations. The first sign of real trouble (I.E. anything heavier than me, or a bunch of blips headed in my direction) I run to my team mates.