88 replies to this topic

[-Muta-]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

When I play conquest, other than go capture, I look for heavy mechs that were left behind.

[C E Dwyer]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

Because the reward for capping is terrible, there is no incentive for lights to cap, because if you don't damage, other mechs then you can garantee to be last in your team even if your capping won the match for it, as an example a few weeks ago I was in a tormelane desert match, and I capped and didn't fire a shot, my team got wiped, and my surving won the game, I recieved 21 match points and a very low amount of credits and xp.

Quite simply, blame PGI's sorry reward system, for giving out the major rewards for damage related combat.

[ohtochooseaname]

Capping is really only necessary on the very large maps, and even on those it is more of a backup for if your team gets wiped. Asking for lights to focus on capping only for the smaller maps is a bit ridiculous. on the other hand, lights can be extremely effective by running in, focus firing one unit, and running out. In doing so, they not only get kills, but act as a major distraction, freeing up bigger stuff to engage more effectively.

[IR_Quinn]

In most my games I'll help cap 2/3 points but I don't focus on it, especially if I'm the only light. There is nothing more boring than spending the match capping the points from full red to blue. I like to harass the enemy from their flanks/rear forcing them to either take free damage or turn their focus to me, giving my team mates extra time to do what they need to do. I love playing my Jenners they are by far my favourite mechs I own, because I love to annoy enemy heavies by letting off an alpha or two before disappearing into the terrain.

I do think that I should receive substantial rewards for the points I capture and maybe even a bonus if our team wins from capping and I helped cap a good portion of the point. This would give me more of an incentive to go cap that point 2000m out instead of going to assist with killing of an enemy caught out of position. But as it stands I'd rather practise my combat skills and learn the game more whilst having fun and earning more exp/c-bill than spending half the game sitting on a point bored and the other half running to the point only to earn less than I would if I'd have lost but picked up a kill and 4-5 assists with around 200-300 damage.

Edited by RyanUNDEAD, 14 September 2013 - 04:03 AM.

[krieghandt]

ya, the reward system is geared to shooters. Hopefully when DM (deathmatch) goes in, it will reward damage, Assault will reward some damage, but mainly winning, and Conquest will not reward damage. This way, if I want to shoot mechs w/ complete disregard for strategy, I just sign up for DM.

[Atillius]

Its situational. Jenner's in packs are brutal and can take the fight to the opposing team, but 1 or 2 Jenners, need to be smart and exploit holes in the enemies lines in both battle modes. Sometimes, you have to go wide, get behind the other team and draw them away from the front and sometimes you have to zip your way through their lines hoping to get them confussed and start shooting each other. Its all about the flow of the battle. Lights are not just for capping. They are a force multiplier and need to be played wisely, for most of the time, us light pilots are making split second desicions based on how the fight evolves.....or so, its what I do.

[Turist0AT]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

Because i and many others dont chose a specific game mode, we just press "any". And im a new light pilot so im scared to go running of by my self so i stay close to the pack. I do respond to basecap, but in conquest im aiming at killing others and capping is second, which is probably wrong but i just dont have the mindset of a light pilot yet.

Dont judge me!

[Modo44]

You should always try and cap something early on, and keep watching the counters for your "GTFO and cap" cue. You can usually spot enemies incoming, and just run away if there are too many -- that is precisely why you bought that expensive XL.

[RiotHero]

I lost a game the other day because a Raven wouldn't rtb on assault. I was heading back at my speedy 64kph and he runs off to try and kill steal a mech that already had three friendlies shooting at it. By the time I got there it was over and it was only a single raven.

Since I only pug solo I pretty much quit playing conquest and assault at all. I love conquest mode the most but, there is no reason to subject yourself to the torture. I get maybe 1 in 20 games where enough people have even slightest clue on how to play the mode. At least in skirmish I don't have to worry about other people doing their job or helping and I can just have fun. People play every mode like skirmish so I only play that.

[Remarius]

I help cap even in my assaults early on as it forces the other sides hand - take some conquest points or attack (presuming there's not some strategic point we're all moving fast to). Removes the defensive option. lost a game I had 5 kills in yesterday as we lost to a capping blackjack. That said he survived due to the ****** firebrand pilot that twice blocked me from firing my alpha volleys on the blackjack so c'est la vie ....

[Blitzace]

I agree, it can be frustrating to be playing the objective when no one else does. Then you often lose because there is one enemy light with ECM in a corner and everyone is wondering around looking for them. As others here have stated, I feel the fix is simple, change how you reward players in conquest. Those who play the objective should be rewarded just like those who are fighting. As it stands right now, I don't blame players for wanting to be in the thick of it because that's how they earn money and XP. That change alone might be enough to get people to change how they play conquest and make it rewarding no matter how you play.

[That Dawg]

EyeDie I, on 24 July 2013 - 06:33 AM, said:

either i drop in alpine with all heavies and assaults and we can barely cap or drop with lights that never cap.whats up?why choose conquest and not cap?

Until PGI makes playing conquest pay off, it will never be anything more than assault with extra bases.
Points awarded for time spent turning a base would change conquest around instantly.

[Khan Pharaoh]

To be honest, in the games I've played in conquest for the last couple of weeks, I've only ever seen 1 game won by capping. The fight is usually over way before the scores get anywhere close to 750. On the occasions where I've tried to cap, I've either been caught alone and killed or been totally out of it and suddenly I'm the only guy on my side left alive.

Right now it seems like trying to win by capping is not just pointless, but detrimental to the team.

[RiotHero]

Khan Pharaoh, on 03 April 2014 - 05:30 AM, said:

To be honest, in the games I've played in conquest for the last couple of weeks, I've only ever seen 1 game won by capping. The fight is usually over way before the scores get anywhere close to 750. On the occasions where I've tried to cap, I've either been caught alone and killed or been totally out of it and suddenly I'm the only guy on my side left alive.

Right now it seems like trying to win by capping is not just pointless, but detrimental to the team.

A agree, I cap and I end up left alone on clean up or rolled over. If I don't cap I get yelled at for not capping. It really is fkin pointless to play the game mode. Everyone does the same thing, they always do and deathball in the mid.

[Gasoline]

RiotHero, on 03 April 2014 - 07:50 PM, said:

A agree, I cap and I end up left alone on clean up or rolled over. If I don't cap I get yelled at for not capping. It really is fkin pointless to play the game mode. Everyone does the same thing, they always do and deathball in the mid.

Something I experience quite frequently in my TDK. I go off capping, cap one or two points, rest of the team dies, I die for getting swarmed, and finally I'm yelled at for being the lowest number on the scoreboard (and getting the lowest rewards possible, thanks to chasing the objective)... So much for objective based gameplay.

Heading out alone in a light is risky business (especially without ECM). Either cap in a wolfpack or stick with the team and head off here or there to cap a point having your team as backup close.

Always having an eye on the counters and evaluating where you are needed most is key for playing conquest. (and a thick hide )

[Hammerhai]

History lesson: In the old days capping paid well, leading to light pack zerg capping. So the rewards were nerfed to encourage fighting.

Apart from that PGI wants a fighting game, so damage pays more. The early maps such as Forest were designed to push enemies in close to each other to start a fight quickly.

Add to that that only the Raven could mount ballistics (an AC20 light swarm was evil to face, btw) , which PGI implemented to be superior to lasers at everything, and there you go. I am guessing this was intentional design. The current intention to fix ballistics, btw?

I wonder. If it is only done to make room at the top for the Clan UAC's and such while keeping time to kill reasonable, the situation overall will not change to give ML users more of a chance. See the Jenner. So wait and see.

The posts in this thread incidentally bear out that this strategy of nerfing capping was successful on the part of PGI.

[Inveramsay]

I think the question should be phrased "why do lights cap", it is boring and unrewarding. I would never go cap unless I had at least another two mechs with me and even then it takes forever to cap. Most of the time if the teams own a roughly equal number of caps it doesn't matter anyway as the deathmatch will be finished before the resource ticker runs out.

[Ovion]

If I drop in Conquest, I play conquest.
I hate it when people don't focus on capping at all, and we then lose because of it.

Conquest requires a mix, holding points AND fighting the enemy.

I got the Phyrric Victory achievement in my Locust last night because I pretty much single handedly capped the points while my team got obliterated. (There were 2 mechs with me for the first cap, but that was it).

I even got a few assists out of it.

[PhoenixFire55]

Simple enough, capping is meaningless. You can earn much more exp/c-bills by doing damage and killing/assisting. Why do you think people run 2ERLL/2PPC builds on lights and ECM Cicada? Because its easy mode damage, but same time these builds are useless vs true brawler lights, so if they go cap and run into basic Jenner they are toast.

Its sad that the current state of the game is such, but it is what it is.

[Kjudoon]

Vincian, on 24 July 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

What for an imprudent question:

Because Lights and fast Mediums like to fight, too?

Lights should not be able to take assaults. Basically the game has them to robust. You would never EVER take on an Atlas with a light in TT let alone in most of the video games. Why? Because you up and die... quickly. Here? Pfffft... Assault spiders and Jenners abound.

At least the notion of hardpoint weight limits is coming so those ERLLs and PPCs on lights will potentially be going away soon. Be interesting to see if lights couldn't mount weapons bigger than 3 tons per Hardpoint, now wouldn't it?