23 replies to this topic

[Mawai]

Master Q, on 24 July 2013 - 07:54 AM, said:

ECCM is not a part of the original Guardian package. There is a massive difference between the Raven ECM (which incorporates ECM) and the original, defense-only Guardian. The "ECCM" rule is an add-on for later tech, Level 3 only.
They are giving away a 7-ton piece of equipment for far less opportunity cost and it is imbalancing the game. I understand the point back when "the only way to counter ECM is by flicking a switch on another ECM mech" but it has gotten out of hand and stupid with how blindingly ineffective and crazy in opportunity cost (BAP barely has any impact, TAG lasers cost precious energy slots) the other "potential counter" options are.

Now stop trolling. You're normally better than this.

According to this link from Sama and the associated game rules. Any ECM suite can be set to operate in and ECCM mode. http://www.sarna.net/wiki/ECCM .. this is apparently from Maximum Tech p77 and is a part of the Battletech rule set.

Also according to sama ... the original Raven ECM was a combination of Guardian ECM and Beagle Active Probe at the same time at a weight and crit slot cost greater than both. http://www.sarna.net...rfare_Equipment

However, the MWO version of Guardian ECM does not incorporate the abilities of BAP. It does include the ECCM functionality which as mentioned above appears to be part of the battletech rule set (PGI is fairly liberal in its choice of rule sets to use though in general I believe the weapons and mechs are limited to 3050 availability.

As for counters, it was much worse before they changed BAP to counter it rather than the other way around.



Edit: All that said, I don't play in 8-man pre-mades, I mostly PUG, where BAP and streak rebalancing appears to have made a difference. If PGI can get LRMs right then hopefully they will take a second look at ECM (LRMs aren't bad at the moment with the exception that they still tend to concentrate on the CT so that 4 x LRM5 can be much more effective than larger launchers. They should probably try LRMs with the new SSRM targeting system then look at possibly increasing the damage of LRMs so that they do reasonable distributed damage instead of less but more concentrated damage.

Edited by Mawai, 24 July 2013 - 08:33 AM.

[General Taskeen]

Mawai, on 24 July 2013 - 08:00 AM, said:

I think these were the effects that PGI was trying to implement within the constraints of the Cryengine system.

Its not really that hard though to make an ECM that works like it is supposed to on the CryEngine and make it work like both BattleTech and every Mech Warrior game that ever included it.

MW:LL is on the CryEngine for example, and they duplicated and improved the BT ECM and also idea's from other Mech games (increasing lock on time):

(Keep in mind that MW:LL also has a fully worked and balanced Active/Passive radar that compliments and interacts with equipment like ECM)

• Reduces Radar Detection of ECM equipped Mech to 500m, if ECM Mech is in Active Radar Mode
  
• Reduces Radar Detection of ECM equipped Mech to 0m, if ECM Mech is in Passive Radar Mode
  
• Whether an ECM Mech is in Active or Passive, any Mech with lock-on weapons can achieve a lock against it, but includes the bonus of making the lock longer to achieve (with passive, this bonus is an increased time to achieve lock, but regardless it can happen eventualy, because that's an example of actual balance or "imperfect balance.")
  
• *Note: When an ECM Mech is Passive, the enemy does not receive a targeting display of their target (it is "hidden"), even though a player can still "lock" onto a Mech.

MW:LL also has fully working C3, which allows players to enhance and assist each other's Active Radar by sharing targets over long distances, but only if a Mech has a Master or Slave C3 unit.

Edited by General Taskeen, 24 July 2013 - 09:30 AM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

maybe you should equip more then "lock on" weapons. just a thought.

[General Taskeen]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 24 July 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

maybe you should equip more then "lock on" weapons. just a thought.

Oh? How about a Direct Fire Counter Measure for "Balance." You get near someone that is carrying Direct-Fire Weapons and their weapons turn off. Now ya know the "feel."

ECM currently ruins and invalidates classic "balanced" builds, like for example, a C1 with 4 lasers and 2 LRM15's.

So saying "maybe they should equip more than lock on weapons" is a poorly thought out statement when people would like to use their builds, even classic builds, but can't and are hampered by the system currently in place which annihilates the spirit of Battle Tech.