34 replies to this topic

[Kin3ticX]

LB10-X spreads out damage way too much. The effective range is still very very poor despite the recent change to the choke/spread.

I don't think it should be as pinpoint as an AC10 but it really really needs a change.

Concept:


5 Damage poke at intermediate/lng range
Full 10 damage at brawling range with crit seeking characteristics.

[xCico]

Actually this is nice, you have nice point, +1 for this
For now lbx serve only if mech doesnt have armor otherwise is useless, this would improve much LBX

[Roland]

Increase the damage per pellet to 1.5
LBX is now a good weapon.
Implementation requires no more than changing a number in a text file.

/thread

[Deathlike]

The idea is different.... and I'm not fond of it.

At the very minimum, the change should be combined with a ROF buff from 2.5s to 2.25s (or something along those lines).

[MoonUnitBeta]

trying to find the thread about discussion on different types of LBX ammo, it had similar images to yours too., for those who wanted the scatter shot (good for legging light mechs) and other ammo that's a slug with a scatter around it like yours, or 5 ac2 shells. Different reloading times I guess and heat for the ammo. Shouldn't be too hard to have certain ammo types generate additional heat if nessicary; if one is obviously more favorable than the other.


Edit: I found it, and i guess it was me who did the image.I don't even remember that... kind of neat to see what I was thinking way back then... lol

Quote

Maybe they'll do it something like this? LBX10 "Slug" ammo is an AC5 slug, with 5 pellets that follow behind. LBX10 "Scatter" ammo is what we have currently.


So you can see the con why take scatter shot lbx when there's a more concentrated firepower ammo available. And the choice would simply be in ammo. Since you'll be missing more with the LBX scatter than you would with the slug, the ammo is available. However, the ammo is decreased for LBX slug since you theoretically would be more accurate and have a longer range for guaranteed damage (5 damage from the slug, if it hits, instead of 1 or 2 from LBX scatter at the same distance). Giving a balance to the two, i think, but balance is certainly not limited to ammo restrictions.

[Link]

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 24 July 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Kin3ticX]

RoF would change the DPS beyond the AC10

Changing the damage from 1 to 1.5 per pellet would make it do 15 (gauss) damage at close range

Those seem more radical too me then just asking for a combination of pinpoint and spread totaling 10 damage and 4 DPS.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 24 July 2013 - 01:43 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

MoonUnitBeta, on 24 July 2013 - 01:34 PM, said:

Edit: I found it, and i guess it was me who did the image.I don't even remember that... kind of neat to see what I was thinking way back then... lol

It' s not something I like to talk about, but I keep stumbling over my old posts, reading stuff that I've completely forgotten I ever wrote, and congratulating myself on being super smart.

That said, I think the easy fix is just upping the damage. Down the line, I would like to see different ammo for the LBX, as well as LRMs and SRMs.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Alistair Winter, on 24 July 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

It' s not something I like to talk about, but I keep stumbling over my old posts, reading stuff that I've completely forgotten I ever wrote, and congratulating myself on being super smart.

Haha! Well you're not alone. It's something I do too here and there, I don't know is that's being vain or just a twisted personality trait.

[edit] I edit my posts a lot... and sometimes delete major parts and paragraphs that I think seem a little too over-the-top or side-tracked thinking.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 24 July 2013 - 02:07 PM.

[Dexion]

Kin3ticX, on 24 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

RoF would change the DPS beyond the AC10 (While spreading it's damage to multiple locations, instead of one panel)

Changing the damage from 1 to 1.5 per pellet would make it do 15 (gauss) damage at close range (while effecting multiple locations, and being far less effective at longer range)

Fixed that for you... yea, I'm not seeing an issue with those changes.

[General Taskeen]

This is how proper LB-X works in a Mech Warrior game:

- # of Pellets per Caliber type (canon) with ability to shoot to their effective range where all pellets land on target (spread out)
- To account for "spread" nature, like missiles, the pellets have to be increased in damage (like every Mech game ever), because that's how it has been done, always. This is a Mech Warrior game in real-time.

- Now that it does more damage than a regular AC counter-part it has to be balanced by other things: Cooldown Logical balance is, if it does more damage, it has a longer cool down.

- Thus both AC's and LB-X become balanced and neither supersedes the other. AC = Fast Fire DPS, LB-X = Slow-Fire, High Burst Damage Potential with great damage at close and long range, albeit less pin-point

All of those changes wouldn't even require any overhauls, merely changing values, and play-testing it.

Edited by General Taskeen, 24 July 2013 - 02:09 PM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

Roland, on 24 July 2013 - 01:23 PM, said:

Increase the damage per pellet to 1.5
LBX is now a good weapon.
Implementation requires no more than changing a number in a text file.

/thread

I've been suggesting this for months now. If LRMs were too weak and needed a damage buff, how much more does the LB-X line of ACs need a damage buff. Keep the rating as the number of pellets and bump damage to 1.5 each. Quick, easy fix that gives it a place.

[Alistair Winter]

MoonUnitBeta, on 24 July 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Haha! Well you're not alone. It's something I do too here and there, I don't know is that's being vain or just a twisted personality trait.
[edit] I edit my posts a lot... and sometimes delete major parts and paragraphs that I think seem a little too over-the-top or side-tracked thinking.

I would edit my posts here a lot more if it didn't result in a huge warning sign and flashy white letters, announcing to the world that I'm a complete failure. Instead, I just spend several minutes looking over my posts.

I also read and memorized your reply before you had time to edit it (another reason why I don't like editing my posts) and I have to say I sympathize with what you wrote. Personally, I would probably go out and get a personality test carried out by a psychologist, except I'm afraid he or she would ask me why I'm going to such trouble, and I'd have to honestly say "narcissism."


Erm, I guess I should say something that is actually relevant to this thread.

The problem with making the LBX pellets do 1.5 damage each, for a total of 15 damage, is that you run the risk of creating a poor man's AC40 Jager, running up to enemy mechs and hugging them (as AC40 Jagers are wont to do) for a cool ~30 damage, except that the LBX is lighter, has faster ROF and carries more ammo. The LBX30 Jager. Unless the weapon spread is terrible, you're going to have a bad time.

[Kin3ticX]

Alistair Winter, on 24 July 2013 - 02:21 PM, said:

The problem with making the LBX pellets do 1.5 damage each, for a total of 15 damage, is that you run the risk of creating a poor man's AC40 Jager, running up to enemy mechs and hugging them (as AC40 Jagers are wont to do) for a cool ~30 damage, except that the LBX is lighter, has faster ROF and carries more ammo. The LBX30 Jager. Unless the weapon spread is terrible, you're going to have a bad time.

I agree 100%.

[Deathlike]

Lemme put it this way...

Unless it becomes OP, LBX is currently the second class citizen to its own weaponry (AC5, UAC5, and AC10).

[skullman86]

I made a suggestion to just change it to a single slug that splashes like the old LRM systems. LBX rounds are supposed to be timed charges that detonate mid way to the target, but programming something like that would probably be more trouble than it's worth. Giving a single slug spread damage gives it the same effect as a load of pellets without the need for extra animations and whatnot, plus the round is more reliable at longer ranges.

Edited by skullman86, 24 July 2013 - 06:05 PM.

[Khanahar]

Increase the RoF of both the LBX-10 and AC/10. Then we can talk any other fixes. 1.5 damage per pellet seems reasonable to me. Maybe an option for slug fire, though this would require the LBX RoF to go back down to give the AC/10 a niche.

[Zyllos]

Why do this instead of just making a flak canister and it explodes 50m or so away from a solid object, so it acts like it's suppose to be, a long ranged flak gun?

[Sybreed]

Zyllos, on 24 July 2013 - 07:42 PM, said:

Why do this instead of just making a flak canister and it explodes 50m or so away from a solid object, so it acts like it's suppose to be, a long ranged flak gun?

because it's probably very difficult to code and would be very difficult for the server to manage. It would have to detect the shot being fired, the position of the enemy mech, the distance of said mech vs slug, then make the slug explode.

IMO, they need to tighten the spread by another 50% so it hits around 3 different body parts at optimum range and up the damage per pellet to 1.5. It fires 10 pellets still.

I feel like PGI played too much zombie games where shotguns spread like freaking crazy and have a 10m effective diameter. A real shotgun has a pretty tight spread.

[Gaan Cathal]

Kin3ticX, on 24 July 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

RoF would change the DPS beyond the AC10

Changing the damage from 1 to 1.5 per pellet would make it do 15 (gauss) damage at close range

Those seem more radical too me then just asking for a combination of pinpoint and spread totaling 10 damage and 4 DPS.

Le sigh. In MW:O pinpoint damage > spread damage. It allows you to concentrate damage in a single compartment for an efficient kill. This is why despite the SRM6 doing 12 damage, it's not broken by weighing so much less than an AC/10 (or two weighing less than an AC/20 if you want more comparable range profiles). Thus, weapons that spread damage need to have that damage inflated relative to an equivalent pinpoint weapon. With between 1.2-1.5 damage, an LBX would actually have a role next to the AC/10, as it is the AC/10 is always better. And if you can't find the ton, take a UAC/5 for 10 pinpoint damage. Both are categorically superior to the LBX-10. Even at 1.5 damage a pellet, it would only be comparable to Gauss damage if every pellet hit the same compartment.

[Zyllos]

Sybreed, on 24 July 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

because it's probably very difficult to code and would be very difficult for the server to manage. It would have to detect the shot being fired, the position of the enemy mech, the distance of said mech vs slug, then make the slug explode.

IMO, they need to tighten the spread by another 50% so it hits around 3 different body parts at optimum range and up the damage per pellet to 1.5. It fires 10 pellets still.

I feel like PGI played too much zombie games where shotguns spread like freaking crazy and have a 10m effective diameter. A real shotgun has a pretty tight spread.

I think your looking at this too hard.

Do you not have a range finder next to your ridicule? Why could the slug not just use the same code (which is most likely a raytrace) that is checked on every server update and just explode, when the range finder reads 50m?

You don't need any complicated calculate time of live fire dependent on selected target or detecting the shot being fired and whatnot.

The only thing you have to do is when the slug is fired, just use the range finder to determine the distance to the next solid object. If it reads 50m or less, explode. It's as simple as that.

This makes the LBX able to utilize it's full optimal range without is being just a better AC/10 at close ranges due to tightening the spray to get it to be worth while at optimal range. It also makes it work like how it is suppose to be in lore.