29 replies to this topic

[Unbound Inferno]

Don't know if its been suggested... but how about a JumpJet fuel/charge limit?

The idea is a dual bar for the JJ burst and a tracking bar for remaining JJ fuel.

You can JJ for a limited time before the system overheats and needs recharging, but are limited to only so much fuel - restricting how many times you can JJ around during the match. Think wisely, or get stuck is the thought.

Or in the case of poptarts... you get half a dozen or so good shots in say a highlander, then your a walking paperweight.


Along with the thought of JJ movement... how about actually having JJ able to produce a limited level of momentum that is controllable slightly? The result is the ability to JJ more precisely and with more forward movement to actually clear gaps in something that's not a light at 150 kph speeds. Would add a great deal of mobility and unpredictability with JJ users giving them an edge as they move out of harms way for example.

[Corvus Antaka]

the only solution is to fix jumpjets and design them better so poptarting is no longer ... doable. No one minds jumping and sniping. no one likes 8 mechs hiding behind a big barrier playing peek a boo and then crying when their base gets capped because the enemy didn't headlong rush them.

[Jaguar Prime]

Hmmm, I didn't know that poptarting was rampant again. I will sayu it should be a viable style of play but it shouldn't be the style of play that eclipses everything else. Like it was.

[El Bandito]

Jaguar Prime, on 01 August 2013 - 02:30 AM, said:

Hmmm, I didn't know that poptarting was rampant again. I will sayu it should be a viable style of play but it shouldn't be the style of play that eclipses everything else. Like it was.

People got better at the game and learned how to poptart with the JJ shake--not that it was hard to do in the first place. Poptarting is now a common feature.

Edited by El Bandito, 01 August 2013 - 02:59 AM.

[Unbound Inferno]

"Is now?" Well, aside form that... I can guarantee at least 1 if not up to 3 poptarts per random match I join with.
Usually on both sides.

[idle crow]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 01 August 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

the only solution is to fix jumpjets and design them better so poptarting is no longer ... doable. No one minds jumping and sniping. no one likes 8 mechs hiding behind a big barrier playing peek a boo and then crying when their base gets capped because the enemy didn't headlong rush them.

If you made it no longer "doable" you trade it for 8 Stalkers playing peek a boo over a ridge. Instead of removing a tactic from the game perhaps its better to make it balanced by having pros and cons.

The shake for example isn't really a con stopping you from jump sniping. All it does is cause a headache to the user at best.

Now as the OP suggested I think is to over the top of it being useless after X usage. It also doesn't address all the current pros of Jump Jets well you have fuel.

1. Longer jump jet recycle times would be one way to start. This would keep you grounded much longer and denying you valuable lag shield armor of the third dimension.

2. I need more then 1 Jump Jet?! Amazing concept here but to reach max thrust speed and height a mech actually has to take its max Jump Jets. This would force any Jump Snipers to actually invest a larger percentage of tonnage into your tactically advantaged ability.

3. Heat? Using Jump Jets could actually cause you to suffer heat. Now spamming you Jump Jet button in that Jenner duel may have a negative.

Now the great thing is you can keep changing all 3 of these until you find a happy medium because something everyone not looking at is once PPC are over nerfed and sniping gone from the game again we be back to "Pop Brawling" No one remembers the Catapult A1 6xSRM6 + Jump Jets?

[Amsro]

I rarely "poptart" as it's known, 1 JJ just doesn't quite give you the height usually.

Instead I jump twist while brawling (during cooldown, to scatter incoming damage) and fire during free fall, nothing overly hard to do but needed to survive longer!

I also like to JJ over slow mechs to get them spinning slowly. HAHA

I still wish JJ actually thrust you into the air quickly, and that more JJ actually increased you velocity and height.

[3rdworld]

Poptarting isn't an issue.

Please play the game in a manor I approve. Otherwise I shall QQ about it.

[Boymonkey]

I agree not an issue at all, it is a valid tactic and if people can do it kudos to them.
I think in the last week I have seen one person trying to do it.

[Dracol]

I love poptarts. They jump up, get targeted, land, and get rained on by lrms. At least the ones who don't jump laterally.

Now the ones who jump laterally i gotta give props to. That takes skill to predict a favorable landing position and don't need any nerfing imho.

[CasualCat2001]

Amsro, on 01 August 2013 - 04:06 AM, said:

I rarely "poptart" as it's known, 1 JJ just doesn't quite give you the height usually.

Instead I jump twist while brawling (during cooldown, to scatter incoming damage) and fire during free fall, nothing overly hard to do but needed to survive longer!

I also like to JJ over slow mechs to get them spinning slowly. HAHA

I still wish JJ actually thrust you into the air quickly, and that more JJ actually increased you velocity and height.

I use it like that though I do sometimes poptart. The weapons I have equipped aren't exactly long range.  I don't think poptarting is such an issue that anything needs changed right now.  I certainly don't want to see JJs further nerfed.  As it is with the terrain movement change in conjunction with not being able to jump in a direction you can many times get stuck now after JJ'ing which really sucks.

Edited by CasualCat2001, 01 August 2013 - 05:03 AM.

[Mr Blonde]

idle crow, on 01 August 2013 - 03:50 AM, said:

If you made it no longer "doable" you trade it for 8 Stalkers playing peek a boo over a ridge. Instead of removing a tactic from the game perhaps its better to make it balanced by having pros and cons.

The shake for example isn't really a con stopping you from jump sniping. All it does is cause a headache to the user at best.

Now as the OP suggested I think is to over the top of it being useless after X usage. It also doesn't address all the current pros of Jump Jets well you have fuel.

1. Longer jump jet recycle times would be one way to start. This would keep you grounded much longer and denying you valuable lag shield armor of the third dimension.

2. I need more then 1 Jump Jet?! Amazing concept here but to reach max thrust speed and height a mech actually has to take its max Jump Jets. This would force any Jump Snipers to actually invest a larger percentage of tonnage into your tactically advantaged ability.

3. Heat? Using Jump Jets could actually cause you to suffer heat. Now spamming you Jump Jet button in that Jenner duel may have a negative.

Now the great thing is you can keep changing all 3 of these until you find a happy medium because something everyone not looking at is once PPC are over nerfed and sniping gone from the game again we be back to "Pop Brawling" No one remembers the Catapult A1 6xSRM6 + Jump Jets?

In Battletech, JJ's cause heat. The heat increases with the distance you jump. Do they not in MWO? I was not aware of that, that's quite wrong if it is the case. Also in BT your number of JJ's certainly influences your jumping ability, I think it does here as well (in distance at least). Yes, it should definitely affect the speed with which the mech rises, leaving it exposed longer if they use only one, and it should only be able to rise about 10m per JJ. JJ's shouldn't have a fuel limit though. They're powered by the fusion engine.

[CasualCat2001]

Mr Blonde, on 01 August 2013 - 05:03 AM, said:

In Battletech, JJ's cause heat. The heat increases with the distance you jump. Do they not in MWO? I was not aware of that, that's quite wrong if it is the case. Also in BT your number of JJ's certainly influences your jumping ability, I think it does here as well (in distance at least). Yes, it should definitely affect the speed with which the mech rises, leaving it exposed longer if they use only one, and it should only be able to rise about 10m per JJ. JJ's shouldn't have a fuel limit though. They're powered by the fusion engine.

Fairly certain They cause heat (just double checked in testing grounds). In game they really only seem to impact your height not your horizontal distance. 1 JJ in a Highlander for example is 6m.

Edited by CasualCat2001, 01 August 2013 - 05:14 AM.

[3rdworld]

CasualCat2001, on 01 August 2013 - 05:06 AM, said:

Fairly certain they cause heat. In game they really only seem to impact your height not your horizontal distance. 1 JJ in a Highlander for example is 6m.

They do. I believe that a using a JJ immediately sets your heat to some level depending on your capacity. Last mech I remember the value was around 14%

[DaZur]

Interesting....

Fixes for things that are no longer an issue / broken?

As other have stated, it's a valid tactic and it is nowhere near as rampant is it once was...

[Roland]

Dracol, on 01 August 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

I love poptarts. They jump up, get targeted, land, and get rained on by lrms. At least the ones who don't jump laterally.

I tend to jumpsnipe all the time now. It's pretty easy, and with the new movement code, JJ's are invaluable. But your statement here is kind of laughable. I mean, I see folks do this all the time, often to me... what do you think happens when you fire LRM's at me using a lock you got while I was in the air? They all just fly over my head or impact the ground, unless I'm an imbecile and just stand still while the missiles come in.

Dracol, on 01 August 2013 - 04:47 AM, said:

Now the ones who jump laterally i gotta give props to. That takes skill to predict a favorable landing position and don't need any nerfing imho.

Heh, do you really think such a thing is hard? Moving slightly before firing?
I mean, "predicting a favorable landing position" is generally a matter of saying, "How long is this ridge?"

Again, I tend to take JJ's on most of my mechs these days, and run long range gauss/ppc builds... but it's not particularly hard. The shake currently has very little impact on accuracy, since it's largely unnoticable compared to what it was.

[dario03]

If you really want to get rid of poptarts you could simply make it so that certain weapons (as in ppc and gauss) can't be fired while jump jetting and for 2 seconds after. Almost completely removes JJ poptarts and the need for the reticule shake that annoys people while not affecting JJs for mobility and most of the weapons in the game. Probably a love it or hate it kind of suggestion but if you view poptarts as a problem this would work and probably wouldn't require much to implement.

Edited by dario03, 01 August 2013 - 05:31 AM.

[The6047]

All I got from this was, "I am not skilled enough to use JJ so nerf plz." -Lame

[James The Fox Dixon]

Unbound Inferno, on 01 August 2013 - 01:52 AM, said:

Don't know if its been suggested... but how about a JumpJet fuel/charge limit?

The idea is a dual bar for the JJ burst and a tracking bar for remaining JJ fuel.

You can JJ for a limited time before the system overheats and needs recharging, but are limited to only so much fuel - restricting how many times you can JJ around during the match. Think wisely, or get stuck is the thought.

Or in the case of poptarts... you get half a dozen or so good shots in say a highlander, then your a walking paperweight.


Along with the thought of JJ movement... how about actually having JJ able to produce a limited level of momentum that is controllable slightly? The result is the ability to JJ more precisely and with more forward movement to actually clear gaps in something that's not a light at 150 kph speeds. Would add a great deal of mobility and unpredictability with JJ users giving them an edge as they move out of harms way for example.

Jump jets should propel a mech in a single direction which forces the poptart to move. This will throw off his aim somewhat and move him out of cover. The following is my proposal for jump jets.

According to lore, jump jets do have velocity to them and a mech moves at their walking speed in the air. By having velocity they are able to move in a single direction regardless of their facing similar to a Harrier jump jet, but at a faster speed.

I propose that for every jump capable mech that each jump jet is a percentage of a mech's ground speed, so for example, the Spider 5D has 8 Jump Jets and has a top speed of 137.7 without Speed Tweak, each jump jet would provide 17.2125 kph of velocity/momentum. However, having less jump jets would lower the maximum velocity/momentum just like a lower rated engine would lower ground speed. The same Spider with 6 jump jets would only have a maximum of 103.2 kph of velocity/momentum.

This is the the formula I used. Take the maximum ground speed (without Speed Tweak) and divide that by the maximum number of jump jets a mech can carry to get the constant value for each jump jet. If a mech mounts less than the maximum number of jump jets the velocity/momentum is determined by taking the constant value and multiplying it by the number of jump jets on the chassis.

On TS, I was given a lot of feedback on this implementation of jump jets. One of the suggestions was to hit the jump key then hit a directional key which would launch the mech in a specific direction. For example, a Spider 5D pilot hits the spacebar to jump then hits A to jump to the left. This locks in the direction of the mech. Hitting a combination of A+S would result in a diagonal jump to the back and left. All mechs, except the Spider, are locked into this direction but can orientate themselves to any facing. Spiders, as per lore, can change their direction during their jumps.

After choosing direction, the pilot would keep hitting the spacebar to keep the jump jets going as it is now. If a pilot doesn't choose a direction they will move forward as default.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 01 August 2013 - 06:03 AM.

[AimRobot]

My only problem with jumpjets is that it mess up hitboxes and give extra protection.