13 replies to this topic

[Allister Rathe]

(I was unsure of where to post this. I put it first under "Mechs and Loadout" since its mostly a build problem, but since this is a well trafficked sub forum I thought I'd try here too.)

So I've been messing around with my HGN-733P, which I primarily play as a long range support complete with 40 LRM's, trying to figure out how I could best maximize its potential. While toying with my build on Smurfy I noticed that the 733P is listed as having its torso hardpoints at 20 missile tubes and the other at 10 with the left arm hardpoint maxed at 10.

Previously I had been running with 2x A+LRM 15's and one A+LRM 10 and just dealt with the fact that I fired one volley of 35 missiles and a second of 5. Once I saw the max missile tubes I thought I could avoid the secondary salvo altogether by swapping to one LRM20 and two LRM10's. The visual representation of the tubes on my 'Mech changed accordingly, showing a total of 40 LRM tubes on the chassis overall. However, when I drop into the training grounds to set up my weapon groupings something odd happens.

Instead of firing a full salvo of 40 missiles like I expected the game swaps the position of the left torso racks, placing the LRM10 in the 20 missile slot and the 20 in the 10 slot. So rather than firing a spread of 40 like I thought, it now fires a double salvo of 30 and 10. When I leave the training grounds and return to the MechLab, the visual representation of my 'Mech no longer shows full 40 missile tubes like it did before launch, instead showing only 30.

I've noticed that in the MechLab, so long as the LRM 20 is "on top" of the LRM 10 in the loadout (that is, it takes up the highest slots in the torso) the visual representation is correct. But after launching the training grounds the game swaps their position, placing the 10 above the 20, and thus the number of tubes assigned to each weapon changes, forcing me into a double salvo once again.

Has anyone else noticed this?

[Unbound Inferno]

Glitch, I think they know about it.

PGI has stated that at some point (likely a bit after launch) the Mech models will have more dynamic missile racks to adjust for the Launcher installed. So instead of a 10-tube, you'll see a 20 tube for that LRM20.

I'm not holding my breath at least, as that will just kill whatever they tried for AMS recently...

[El Bandito]

Luckily in my HGN-733 it works and fires 50 LRMs (20+10+10+10) in one go. Thank whatever the mysterious mechanics for that.

Try HGN-733 if you want dedicated LRM boat.

[Allister Rathe]

The primary reason that I like the 733P as my missile support is because of its 4 energy hardpoints. I currently run two Large Lasers in the arm to help fight off any lights or mediums that get too close, a PPC in the right torso to add some pinpoint damage on slow movers or to shut down ECM, and a TAG to target any ECM 'Mechs that I can't hit with the PPC. It runs rather hot, but with some fire discipline can be incredibly effective.

I can see the wisdom of using the 733 because it has more missile hardpoints overall, but I find that without the arm mounted lasers its much harder to defend against any fast flankers. The HGN's range and speed of torso movement makes it far more difficult to bring those RT hardpoints to bear on anything above 100 kph, I find.

[El Bandito]

Allister Rathe, on 24 July 2013 - 09:41 PM, said:

The primary reason that I like the 733P as my missile support is because of its 4 energy hardpoints. I currently run two Large Lasers in the arm to help fight off any lights or mediums that get too close, a PPC in the right torso to add some pinpoint damage on slow movers or to shut down ECM, and a TAG to target any ECM 'Mechs that I can't hit with the PPC. It runs rather hot, but with some fire discipline can be incredibly effective. I can see the wisdom of using the 733 because it has more missile hardpoints overall, but I find that without the arm mounted lasers its much harder to defend against any fast flankers. The HGN's range and speed of torso movement makes it far more difficult to bring those RT hardpoints to bear on anything above 100 kph, I find.

I stick with the team for that purpose. My role is to kill any Assault in 12 seconds and they role is to be my distraction/meat shield/bait--willingly or not.

[Unbound Inferno]

El Bandito, on 24 July 2013 - 09:33 PM, said:

Luckily in my HGN-733 it works and fires 50 LRMs (20+10+10+10) in one go. Thank whatever the mysterious mechanics for that.

Try HGN-733 if you want dedicated LRM boat.

Same glitch that lets a Catapult A1 launch a LRM90 in one go.

If the Launcher doesn't exceed the tube size, it fires them all together. Weird really...

[El Bandito]

Unbound Inferno, on 24 July 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

Same glitch that lets a Catapult A1 launch a LRM90 in one go. If the Launcher doesn't exceed the tube size, it fires them all together. Weird really...

No it is a different issue. In Highlander, the tube switches the LRMs. For example, I want to fire LRM20 from the 20 tube launcher and LRM10 from the 10 tube launcher in the Highlander LT, but in game it automatically switches them so the 20 tube will fire the LRM10 while the 10 tube will stagger fire LRM20. It is a bug.

Just before tourney I managed to get it work for my HGN-733 and preformed well in it but prior to that the auto-switch was maddening.

[Benjamin Davion]

I've heard of items being randomly rearranged at the start of a match to cause tube-discrepancies. Pretty sure I also read of some kind of placement gimmick to keep it from happening, though that could have been for a specific model. Not sure where I read this. Anyone have any ideas?

Also, does anyone know if the multiple launches caused by tube mismatches effects the new heat model if you're exceeding the threshold for a heat penalty? I think it does and it causes the extra heat to not manifest because TECHNICALLY, you are not firing for example, LRM60, you are firing LRM45 followed by LRM 15. See what I mean? The heat registers NOT when you pull the trigger, but when the missiles leave the tube.

[SirLANsalot]

For the Highlanders, I have ran in my HM even a LRM 20 and 10 together in the toso. I make sure to mount the 20 FIRST so it sits in the troso mount then I put the LRM 10 in. Since you can have 2 launchers in that toso, the first will be in the toso itself, the second will be in the side "pod". That "pod" can only handle 10 missiles at once, so if you have 2 20's in there the toso will fire them all at once, but the "pod" will fire 2 sets of 10. This applies to all highlanders as well, with additional missile "pods" in the arms only able to handle 10 missiles.

So an optimal config for maximum missiles in flight for a 733P, is this. LRM20 and 3x LRM10, this is a 50 missile alpha with NO follow up shots.

[Allister Rathe]

SirLANsalot, on 24 July 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

For the Highlanders, I have ran in my HM even a LRM 20 and 10 together in the toso. I make sure to mount the 20 FIRST so it sits in the troso mount then I put the LRM 10 in. Since you can have 2 launchers in that toso, the first will be in the toso itself, the second will be in the side "pod". That "pod" can only handle 10 missiles at once, so if you have 2 20's in there the toso will fire them all at once, but the "pod" will fire 2 sets of 10. This applies to all highlanders as well, with additional missile "pods" in the arms only able to handle 10 missiles.

So an optimal config for maximum missiles in flight for a 733P, is this. LRM20 and 3x LRM10, this is a 50 missile alpha with NO follow up shots.

I understand that.

Every time I tested the issue, I made sure to strip both launchers from the torso and then specifically place the LRM 20 in first so that it appears on the torso and the LRM 10 second so it becomes the "pod". Before I launch the game, it visually appears as if I have a torso mounted LRM 20 (I've studiously counted each time) and a "pod" mounted LRM 10, but in game it fires as if it were the reverse. When I leave the game and return to the 'MechLab the placement is also reversed, reading as with the LRM 10 above the LRM 20, with only 10 missile tubes appearing in the torso and the 20 relegated to a double volley from the pod

It's frustrating because it appears before every launch it appears as if my 'Mech will fire a total of 40 missile tubes, but the game always launches with a stagger of 30 and 10.

Edited by Allister Rathe, 24 July 2013 - 10:33 PM.

[El Bandito]

SirLANsalot, on 24 July 2013 - 10:24 PM, said:

For the Highlanders, I have ran in my HM even a LRM 20 and 10 together in the toso. I make sure to mount the 20 FIRST so it sits in the troso mount then I put the LRM 10 in. Since you can have 2 launchers in that toso, the first will be in the toso itself, the second will be in the side "pod". That "pod" can only handle 10 missiles at once, so if you have 2 20's in there the toso will fire them all at once, but the "pod" will fire 2 sets of 10. This applies to all highlanders as well, with additional missile "pods" in the arms only able to handle 10 missiles. So an optimal config for maximum missiles in flight for a 733P, is this. LRM20 and 3x LRM10, this is a 50 missile alpha with NO follow up shots.

733P has only 3 missile slots. You confused it with 733. Also Allister is right. The launcher automatically messes with your pre-arranged LRM placements. Otherwise, we wouldn't have this thread.

Hell you can even see that while putting SRMs in VTR-9S. You can't put SRM6, SRM4 and SRM2 in that order--the launcher trolls you and put SRM4 first, then SRM6.

Edited by El Bandito, 24 July 2013 - 10:36 PM.

[SirLANsalot]

Allister Rathe, on 24 July 2013 - 10:33 PM, said:

I understand that.

Every time I tested the issue, I made sure to strip both launchers from the torso and then specifically place the LRM 20 in first so that it appears on the torso and the LRM 10 second so it becomes the "pod". Before I launch the game, it visually appears as if I have a torso mounted LRM 20 (I've studiously counted each time) and a "pod" mounted LRM 10, but in game it fires as if it were the reverse. When I leave the game and return to the 'MechLab the placement is also reversed, reading as with the LRM 10 above the LRM 20, with only 10 missile tubes appearing in the torso and the 20 relegated to a double volley from the pod

It's frustrating because it appears before every launch it appears as if my 'Mech will fire a total of 40 missile tubes, but the game always launches with a stagger of 30 and 10.

Easy fix is to run a game with twin 20's in the torso. I had the same issue for a while till I ran a few games like that, then changed back to 20/10 and it kept them that way. Seems to bug big time if you buying a new launcher too, which really screws it all up.

[Allister Rathe]

SirLANsalot, on 24 July 2013 - 11:33 PM, said:

Easy fix is to run a game with twin 20's in the torso. I had the same issue for a while till I ran a few games like that, then changed back to 20/10 and it kept them that way. Seems to bug big time if you buying a new launcher too, which really screws it all up.

That sort of defeats the point though. I shouldn't have to put on weapon systems I don't want to use in order to achieve the desired effect for the ones I want to, even for a single game. It seems to me that it should be a relatively simple matter for the game to auto-assign each missile system in the torso to the correct hardpoint as available (e.g. automatically placing the biggest system in the 20 rack and any secondary system in the pod) but instead it mysteriously swaps them around for no reason.

Also I run an XL engine in my Highlanders. Can't put 2 LRM20's in a torso with an XL, even if you remove Artemis.

[Allister Rathe]

So I dunno if it was a stealthy bugfix by the team, but I was again tweaking the very same 'Mech I was having trouble with and discovered that the strange swap of my weapons no longer occurred. I tested it three times in the training grounds before playing a fairly successful match with my now permanent LRM 40 combo.

Whatever the issue was, it's apparently been resolved. Even though it's slightly heavier in tonnage (Literally one ton between the A+LRM20 and dual 10 as opposed to LRM 15's in the torso) using the tubes on the chassis to their full potential is not only more effective, but just feels more right for a Highlander to have an LRM 20 in that torso. Combined with a tag to direct the salvo it does great concentrated damage, and is a fantastic long range punch for me to add to my arsenal.

It's really convincing me that LRM's are in a good place now. I feel like I can actually use them without having to do some ridiculous LRM60+ build without any backup weapons to make them effective.