519 replies to this topic

[Salient]

All i read was "Blah blah blah, we are working hard to sell out the Mechwarrior Community. Say hello to your new friends from WoT."

[Chippey]

I am prepared to accept the bone fides of the devs at this point up until the promised date that we exit beta. If that date gets pushed back or comes and go and nothing changes I will have to reconsider my position. On balance, I enjoy this game.

[Mystere]

Wittyname Terribad, on 01 August 2013 - 11:17 AM, said:

Please no 3PV...just please

Too late. See the public test server subforum.

[Gofer]

Note to developers: Stop deliberately missleading your supporters. Lies through omission are still lies. 3PV being active now and not having the balls to mention it with this latest update shows a level of cowardice in announcing the direction of this game that each of us is helping fund.

With the advent of 3PV, you move a far future special function feature into the default interface and turn our game into an Xbox / Play station mario brothers game. Whoever you hired from Activision/Blizzard needs to be fired - they are giving you damned bad advice ... unless your intent is to lose 20% of your supporters every quarter..

As a purchaser of the Overlord Phoenix package, I am feeling SIGNIFICANTLY defrauded by your assertion that this game would remain 1st Person Shooter style. Tonight my wife will be challeng the charge on our Monthy Mastercard statement as a fraudulent charge. I'm sick with regret as the Overlord Phoenix package was the ONLY birthday present that I asked my wife to get for me. Liars suck. Decide if that applies to you (PGI) and your developmental staff and media mouthpieces and act accordingly... I expect no action.. .. none.. cause that's what people and corporations who suck provide.

[VigorousApathy]

did this guy just mention clan tech implementation? I just pooped a little, out of excitment.

[Evrik]

I think this is good information. I love the faster pace you are working at. I wish you would forget 3rd person. Overall keep up the good work.

[Trev Firestorm]

Bilbo, on 01 August 2013 - 12:26 PM, said:

I'm confused as to why people link that post to validate their position about how PGI lies, but conveniently forget this statement within it:
"We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance"

And this one:
"Edit:

It's been over a year since this was posted. As I mentioned..."We will investigate 3rd person in the far off distance for special game settings, but this is very far off in the distance." We're now at that far off distance. "

Probably because it implies a time well after community warfare which is one of the core design pillars we still haven't seen, yet they are already pushing 3pv to test.

Edited by Trev Firestorm, 02 August 2013 - 01:08 AM.

[GetinmyBellah]

Amongst all the bashing how has anyone not applauded the fact that test servers, real test servers are coming. This will be a huge advancement versus the current process which removes the player base out of affecting the next phase(s) and, or delivery of content come patch day. Remove your head from your derriere and think about being able to participate and help shape the next phase of MW:O.

I agree with many of you that several issues were vaguely addressed, but let's be honest that's because with test servers in play their "next move" isn't a stone path any longer.

Here's to getting this game back to what the majority as a whole feels good about <S>

[GetinmyBellah]

Lonestar1771, on 01 August 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

Because it proves they are liars? I'm confused why people say "be patient, they will fix it" or "this game has only been in development for less than 3 years" and then say "they said far off distance and now we are there" Guess PGI doesn't follow the same rules of the space time continuum as the rest of us mortals.

Instead of the less than original banners and continued bashing all you have to do is uninstall MW:O, as your lot isn't held at gunpoint to play MW:O. You're also free to not be a part of this F2P community and take your biased, non-constructive criticisms elsewhere. The bantering and less than humorous attempts are well past being old.

[Gofer]

Vegentius, on 02 August 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Instead of the less than original banners and continued bashing all you have to do is uninstall MW:O, as your lot isn't held at gunpoint to play MW:O. You're also free to not be a part of this F2P community and take your biased, non-constructive criticisms elsewhere. The bantering and less than humorous attempts are well past being old.

With all due respect, the american consumer votes with his wallet and his feet. Your approach does not allow those of us who believe in the sanctity of the core design pillars of this game concept to express our views that we are being cheated and mislead with respect to the development of this game. Many of us are just as invested as you are, in time, in money, or both.. the ONLY reason that I didnt pay out for an orignating founder package is that I had twins being born a week after it was going live and I knew that I could not responsibly play the game and provide input in those first 6 months.... since then, I've regularly supported with cash, read the forums, worked the new functions to see if I could break them.. and provided feedback if i could.... My family JUST layed down another $80 for Overloard Phoenix, and I was one of the first 500 to own a Sarah.... and NOW... NOW .. PGI comes out and says that they are making our game a 3rd person shooter console game? Worse.. they are splitting up the available pool of gamers for 1st or 3rd.. further reducing the game experience...

Some would prefer to kiss butt and say "unsatisfied people leave".... but that leaves an inbred, self flagilating crowd in place to ruin a game that many of us would prefer really did get a chance to live up to it's potential...

If people wanted to play a 3rd person shooter with a variety of platforms and well developed divergent worlds... they'd be playing on Xbox/PS Console games - or - Blizzards World of Warcraft.... and we can see that with Blizzard loosing 20% subscriptions / quarter.. that MAY not be the way to go... I'm sure others have opinions on this... my 2 cents are for each of us to be in a nervous, cant see everything, 1st person shooter that sounds big and rumbly and loud when it shoots...

[RealHorrorShow]

Seriously? Isn't it good that they are taking their time with CW, Clans, and weapon balance? I mean clans and weapons are naturally imbalanced, they have a huge task on their hands to balance those. I've been playing for about a year and weapon balance (although not perfect) I would say has improved and at least attempts to address issues in the game. We have the public test server now, a boatload more mechs, maps, commands/orders and tweaks to ECM/information warfare.

My point is, if your bored that's fine take a break. At the end of the day it's just a game! However, suggesting that they should churn out stuff faster is not going to improve anything. Do you really think they are just sitting around and not working on this game? I get the impression that they are working/tweaking it constantly. Just because they aren't listening to every persons advice on the forum (thank god) doesn't mean they're incompetent.

[GetinmyBellah]

I respect many of your valid concerns and point(s) of view, however you mentioned something that I was trying to get at all along (public testing and servers). Concerning WoW - yes they're losing customers but we're talking about a game, myself included as a closed beta tester for Blizzard Entertainment, that many of us have been playing since 2003 or earlier, and the masses since 2004 (I lost a lot of respect for Blizz when they partnered with Activision, but to date Blizz will still push back a titles gold release deadline, for up to two years in the most recent case, to make certain it's as pure and balanced as possible). Sure, many new customers have come into the WoW fold but the fact remains, it's a 9 year old title that paved the way for many an MMO, but people always want new and shiny... ooo' my precious.

Regardless, back to the point of public testing - this will help all of us immensely in helping shape the future of MW:O in a manner that should have been started a year ago? At least six months ago or so yeah, but I'll take what I can get when you're dealing with a small developer with finite resources when it comes down to the nitty gritty. I too have a lot invested in this game but testing before releasing and letting us be heard in a fashion not present before now will change the future of MW:O; finally. Let's give this overdue process time to mature before we continually bash is the gist of what I'm spraying.

<S> happy hunting

/endrant

Gofer, on 02 August 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

With all due respect, the american consumer votes with his wallet and his feet. Your approach does not allow those of us who believe in the sanctity of the core design pillars of this game concept to express our views that we are being cheated and mislead with respect to the development of this game. Many of us are just as invested as you are, in time, in money, or both.. the ONLY reason that I didnt pay out for an orignating founder package is that I had twins being born a week after it was going live and I knew that I could not responsibly play the game and provide input in those first 6 months.... since then, I've regularly supported with cash, read the forums, worked the new functions to see if I could break them.. and provided feedback if i could.... My family JUST layed down another $80 for Overloard Phoenix, and I was one of the first 500 to own a Sarah.... and NOW... NOW .. PGI comes out and says that they are making our game a 3rd person shooter console game? Worse.. they are splitting up the available pool of gamers for 1st or 3rd.. further reducing the game experience...

Some would prefer to kiss butt and say "unsatisfied people leave".... but that leaves an inbred, self flagilating crowd in place to ruin a game that many of us would prefer really did get a chance to live up to it's potential...

If people wanted to play a 3rd person shooter with a variety of platforms and well developed divergent worlds... they'd be playing on Xbox/PS Console games - or - Blizzards World of Warcraft.... and we can see that with Blizzard loosing 20% subscriptions / quarter.. that MAY not be the way to go... I'm sure others have opinions on this... my 2 cents are for each of us to be in a nervous, cant see everything, 1st person shooter that sounds big and rumbly and loud when it shoots...

[Lonestar1771]

Vegentius, on 02 August 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

Instead of the less than original banners and continued bashing all you have to do is uninstall MW:O, as your lot isn't held at gunpoint to play MW:O. You're also free to not be a part of this F2P community and take your biased, non-constructive criticisms elsewhere. The bantering and less than humorous attempts are well past being old.

So those that don't agree with the direction of the game should leave? I've never pretended to be handcuffed to this game, but, if I can save someone some money by pointing out PGI's inconsistencies and their inability to fix major problems with the game, then I will continue to post as I have been. I have just as much right to disagree with PGI as you do agreeing with them. The fact you call be biased is not only woefully ignorant of my history with MWO, but also just plain wrong. I actually played the game religiously in CB and had a lot of praise for PGI, but once they started showing what kind of company they were running and the lack of professionalism became apparent, I changed my mind about them. I want MWO to succeed but not at the expense of customers being poorly treated, ignored, and just plain lied to by PGI and IGP.

Maybe if they tried to have some semblance of integrity, they would get a little more respect.

[Kraven Kor]

We are not all ever going to agree on everything.

However, it is quite clear - or seems to be from where some of us stand - that what is being done is not working and is chasing off paying customers, Founders in particular. Anecdotal evidence, certainly - I have no proof to back this up beyond what I have heard / seen on these forums, FWLM, MWO Facebook page, etc.

It would appear that the peasants are revolting.

PGi can turn this around, should they wish to, by returning their development plans and goals to what seemed to have been sold to the Founders - which, to me, was a "thinking man's, lite-sim FPS game" with some lore friendly gameplay and us playing through the clan invasions and such in a MMO-like environment.

They can't and do not need to respond to every single individual concern and I do not envy them the job of sorting out the signal from the noise.

But they could win a lot of customers back with:

1. A 100% rock-solid, untouchable, un-negatable promise to ensure 1PV players will ALWAYS, 100% ALWAYS FOREVER have their own separate 1PV only queue or the ability to lock this down in whatever lobby system comes along.

2. Actual information on Community Warfare plans and gameplay; what will this game look like in the future?

3. A return to lite-sim, non-arcade features. Rework ECM to be more skill based and soft-counters instead of hard-counters; make ECM require a bit of thought. Really overhaul the command system and make command console do something. Rework gameplay modes to "feel more like a military mission" and have multiple spawn points to split teams up and multiple objectives to where you have to really figure out who to send where to achieve the most objectives or deny the enemy. Real asymmetrical gameplay modes, not just for CW.

4. Actual working in-game VOIP for those who don't want / need to do Teamspeak or Vent.

They can turn this around.

The question is: Do they want to?

My take on it is they are gambling that they can lose all of us pain-in-the-*** Founders and replace us with new players who like the direction they are taking.

What I see on the internet tells me they are vastly wrong in this gamble and are about to lose big time.

But then I am a biased observer.

"Go ahead and Ignore your customers concerns; they will go away."

[Kraven Kor]

Oh, and it would be mighty kind of them to then offer a second chance at the Pheonix Package once concerns are addressed in some fashion for those of us who refused to buy until our concerns were addressed in some fashion (only to be completely ignored in the CDU with Baghdad Bob telling us all how great everything is and how much progress they have made.)

I bet a simple sneak peak at Community Warfare and a post promising to at least look into a return to the original vision of the game would get at least a few hundred players to extend their patience a bit longer.

[Rebas Kradd]

Lonestar1771, on 02 August 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

So those that don't agree with the direction of the game should leave? I've never pretended to be handcuffed to this game, but, if I can save someone some money by pointing out PGI's inconsistencies and their inability to fix major problems with the game, then I will continue to post as I have been. I have just as much right to disagree with PGI as you do agreeing with them. The fact you call be biased is not only woefully ignorant of my history with MWO, but also just plain wrong. I actually played the game religiously in CB and had a lot of praise for PGI, but once they started showing what kind of company they were running and the lack of professionalism became apparent, I changed my mind about them. I want MWO to succeed but not at the expense of customers being poorly treated, ignored, and just plain lied to by PGI and IGP.

Maybe if they tried to have some semblance of integrity, they would get a little more respect.

Yes, you would have every right to leave if those things had happened. The thing is, they haven't.

* PGI has every right to alter their roadmap along the way in order to broaden financial appeal. Doing a fundraising campaign during their period of initial idealism is not the same as lying to suck the hardcores in.

* The customers are not being ignored. I do not WANT the devs perusing the boards for ideas from random people on the internet, much less replying to each and every one of them. If that's the only definition of "professionalism" you have, that's your problem. Additionally, you're ignoring that a great number of customer ideas HAVE been implemented, and the devs usually show strong forethought when explaining why other ideas aren't.

* Inability to fix problems? The HUD bugs, missile imbalance, stability issues, countless other problems, all fixed. It took a while, and it's frustrating, but that's down largely to the size of the developer and the need for a revamped UI. Calling it an "inability" is a broad enough term to be considered a lie.

* Finally, you HAVEN'T actually left at all. You're still hanging around the boards, posting literally nothing but attacks on PGI while contributing nothing to the game's development, so focused on the MWO you want that you won't even look at the good reasons it hasn't happened. Defining "hostile" as a combination of high criticism and low content makes you the most hostile poster that I've observed on the board. Quit using "love for the game" as your excuse to go on being unconstructive; this isn't the Occupy movement. If you're going to leave, then actually leave.

Edited by Rebas Kradd, 02 August 2013 - 02:18 PM.

[Kraven Kor]

Rebas, trust me on this, many players have in fact left (see units unable to find 8v8 matches, dwindling numbers on house and unit teamspeaks, etc.)

Many more are inches from doing so.

Again, PGI can fix this, and it won't take them implementing every single thing posted to the forums. All it will take is an assurance that they will look into the issues raised by #SaveMWO and to at least acknowledge - without being dismissive - the concerns of many Founders who have left over the lack of progress and the "arcade" features they have been pushing. And then to act on that promise and show us some really great progress on: Community Warfare, reworking of ECM to be more "skill based," reworking of gameplay modes to feel more like a military mission, reworking of the heat scale to be something more like TT (penalties at high heat before shutdown), reworking pilot skill trees and mech quirks to reward larger diversity of builds... something, anything. Again, I know we won't all agree on every solution... but when we almost all disagree with their proposed solution, they should be more willing to discuss it or at least not simply dismiss it out of hand.

Do they want to fix it?

Or are they OK with a considerable number of their Founders - who have spent hundreds of dollars on average and who would gladly spend more on the game that PGI originally sold us - leaving and never coming back and likely having nothing nice to say about their experiences?

[Lonestar1771]

Rebas Kradd, on 02 August 2013 - 02:11 PM, said:

* Finally, you HAVEN'T actually left at all. You're still hanging around the boards, posting literally nothing but attacks on PGI while contributing nothing to the game's development, so focused on the MWO you want that you won't even look at the good reasons it hasn't happened. Defining "hostile" as a combination of high criticism and low content makes you the most hostile poster that I've observed on the board. Quit using "love for the game" as your excuse to go on being unconstructive; this isn't the Occupy movement. If you're going to leave, then actually leave.

When did I say I was leaving? I think you have me confused with someone else because I have NEVER EVER claimed that I was leaving. I want the MWO THEY pitched to us in their initial developer blogs. What we have now is not even in the same dimension as what they told us back then. How can I contribute to the development (and why would I?) when people much smarter than me have already come up with several ideas for MWO that have been largely disregarded by PGI?

Why are ideas from "ideas from random people on the internet" any less valid than PGI's? That makes no sense. The community knows more about the IP than anyone else (save the creators).

I'm so sick of people like you making excuses for PGI. Being a small dev team is not a valid excuse. If indie developers can make quality games with no budget and no publisher and a day job other than game developing, then a professional studio should be able to do it better and faster.

[Belorion]

Lonestar1771, on 02 August 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:

Maybe if they tried to have some semblance of integrity, they would get a little more respect.

No, they wouldn't. It doesn't matter what they do, or say... this is an internet game and they will get blasted over and over again as long as this game is in existence, just like all of the other games out there.

[Rebas Kradd]

Lonestar1771, on 02 August 2013 - 04:02 PM, said:

Being a small dev team is not a valid excuse.

It's a reality. It needs to be factored in.

I know well that PGI has made missteps, and I've called them on it. They were silly to launch open beta without internal telemetry tools. Their choice of CryEngine has repeatedly set them back (though CryEngine seems to be astonishingly poorly supported, so it's hard to blame PGI fully on that). The need for a new UI has been a hassle as well. Their choice to make the game fully server-authoritative to avoid hacking has raised some unique problems as well. And I do wish they'd give more information, but much of their silence seems to be of the "we're not sure of what to announce yet" and is subsumed under the "taking too long" problem.

Those are my criticisms, and they're much different than blanket accusations of incompetence and corruption. Sheesh.

And as far as that "Save MWO" campaign, so far it has less than 1,000 signatures (I refuse to accept on faith that every single person in the represented guilds agrees with the letter, sorry) and falls neatly into the "vocal minority" category. I simply don't see a ghost town game here, nor the much-ballyhooed "arcade shooter" motif, and a lot of that "lost Founder goodwill" seems conveniently anecdotal. We are so far from SWG territory that it's hard to be worried.