740 replies to this topic

[N0MAD]

Sybreed, on 29 July 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I'm surprised Linux is mentionned so often... is it common for devs to work with that?

Its free and its good,silly not to.

[Adridos]

Sybreed, on 29 July 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I'm surprised Linux is mentionned so often... is it common for devs to work with that?

Unless they want to play videogames in work, yes.

Also, Stalkerr, have you tried pro-actively contacting units on your own to make sure they know about this "project"?

[Zatharus Mathew deTora]

Sybreed, on 29 July 2013 - 07:52 PM, said:

I'm surprised Linux is mentionned so often... is it common for devs to work with that?

Never met a dedicated dev who didn't.

[Mycrus]

A deep heartfelt thank you to the goons for organizing the townhall!

I listened to the entirety of it on vcrs and I must say that it was administered quite well..

I don't know what dimension PGI works in but in the real world companies pay money to get this kind of feedback from customers.

In the real world, we pay consultant; we fly our own people to wine and dine customers to get this kind of granular information..

It would really blow if piggy did not acknowledge this work, take it seriously and revise plans and resources to address the issues brought up in the townhall..

Thank you to the community for participating as well.. We had eu guys not sleeping and asia/aussie guys taking time during a work day...

Btw, I'm from ARMD

[FiveDigits]

Regarding communication from PGI and the openness of development (or rather lack thereof) there was an interesting bit in the recent NGNG Podcast #82 (from the point linked to about 42:00).
PGI (represented by Garth here) seems to be genuinely afraid of communicating anything about the course of development to us - out of fear of negative feedback.

I don't get it. Compared to others this community is one of the most tame and constructive ones. Yet we seem to be so scary that we basically paralyze PGI's ability to communicate.

[MustrumRidcully]

FiveDigits, on 30 July 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Regarding communication from PGI and the openness of development (or rather lack thereof) there was an interesting bit in the recent NGNG Podcast #82 (from the point linked to about 42:00).
PGI (represented by Garth here) seems to be genuinely afraid of communicating anything about the course of development to us - out of fear of negative feedback.

I don't get it. Compared to others this community is one of the most tame and constructive ones. Yet we seem to be so scary that we basically paralyze PGI's ability to communicate.

That sounds like a bad fear. We'll see the development results eventually, and if it's bad, you get your negative feedback right there, and you're stuck with a potentially poorly thought out system.
Kinda like the heat penalty system... Except that was development that was reported on early. We didn't like it then, we don't like it now. Well, at least some of us don't.

[WWWWWWWWWWWWW]

MustrumRidcully, on 30 July 2013 - 01:14 AM, said:

That sounds like a bad fear. We'll see the development results eventually, and if it's bad, you get your negative feedback right there, and you're stuck with a potentially poorly thought out system.
Kinda like the heat penalty system... Except that was development that was reported on early. We didn't like it then, we don't like it now. Well, at least some of us don't.

Right, I know that quite a few of the people I played MWO with were literally shocked when PGI decided to go ahead with ghost heat scaling after the community uproar. You'd think after all the kneejerk nerfing of "OP" weapons they've done in the past they'd at least give Paul's Great Idea a second glance!

[fil5000]

Honestly, the most baffling thing with the heat penalty is the lack of information about what it's supposed to achieve. It doesn't kill long range pinpoint alpha, it doesn't kill the 4 PPC stalker, just slows it down by half a second, it DOES punish SRM-2 boats. What is it FOR?

[FiveDigits]

Ghost heat, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Uh-huh
Ghost heat, huh, yeah
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Say it again, y'all

[Tolkien]

fil5000, on 30 July 2013 - 01:47 AM, said:

Honestly, the most baffling thing with the heat penalty is the lack of information about what it's supposed to achieve. It doesn't kill long range pinpoint alpha, it doesn't kill the 4 PPC stalker, just slows it down by half a second, it DOES punish SRM-2 boats. What is it FOR?

My guess is it is to try to bandage over two fundamental problems with a real time/fps mechwarrior game:
1) Carrying multiple copies of the same weapon makes hitting your targets much easier. For example, in the background material a medium laser an SRM launcher and an AC20 all have the same range envelope and are just as useful against any given target. In a realtime FPS though we have to aim the guns at different points in space (e.g. lead with the SRMs) and for different lengths of time to do damage. Carrying a diverse build is in some ways a handicap since you have to do that much more work to get the most of it. The heat penalties are to try to force diverse builds by penalizing (some of) the weapon systems when 'too many' are used.

2) Rather than try to target an enemies weapon systems it's often easier just to knock out the CT - you can hit it reliably from range and a dead mech returns zero fire and caps no bases. The heat penalties are to try to reduce the amount of all at once damage that can be focused on a single point on a mech. Since this all at once damage was exemplified by 4+PPcs at range or 2x AC20's up close they are trying to bandage the system by penalizing these specific combinations.

Unfortunately for them it doesn't truly fix the underlying which I believe will come right back to the fore when clan mechs come out and they can do more damage with a diverse build of instant/near instant hit weapons like UAC20, UAC10, Clan Pulse lasers (double range of IS), CERPPC (50% more damage than IS ERPPC) and Clan Gauss (lighter and smaller than IS Gauss).

Edit: Incidentally streaks are now acting like all weapons in the tabletop game did... if they hit, they go to a random location on the mech. This was fine in the tabletop game where everything did it, but it makes streaks pretty bad by comparison when every energy and ballistic system can be fired at a weakened spot on the enemy.

Edited by Tolkien, 30 July 2013 - 02:17 AM.

[scJazz]

Gwaihir, on 29 July 2013 - 03:02 PM, said:

You would have to be utterly insane to give rewards from private lobbies to match public ranked games.

It certainly would be the easiest approach. Still somehow I suspect that there exists a set of conditions which would allow at least some or even all rewards. Whenever the subject comes up though... everyone just skips ahead to no rewards.

[Ramblin]

"I need 5million c-bills to get my Atlas, you mind jumping into this private match with me and laying down a dozen times-ish so I can farm it up?"

"I would love to do that for you" Says no mech pilot ever...

I suppose you could make a dummy account for allowing your buddies to put the beat down on you but, if you are required to have a premium account to enter the private matches then its a win for PGI and your kind of jackass.

[Stalkerr]

Adridos, on 29 July 2013 - 11:15 PM, said:

Also, Stalkerr, have you tried pro-actively contacting units on your own to make sure they know about this "project"?

Adridos: We did initially in order to get folks to the Town Hall to start the conversation. I only reached out to a small group of people, though, as I honestly didn't have time (or capacity in my PM box... which can only hold 50 conversations) to reach out too all the units I wanted to.

Going forward, everyone connected with "this" should be reaching out to people they know and having the conversation with them. Try to understand how they feel about MWO. If they can see that things aren't what they should be, and they aren't having fun in the current state of the game, point them our way. Heck, even if they are having fun, point them our way. This movement is not about saving the game from doom, it's about showing PGI that we all care about where the game heads and we want it to be as fun as possible for the whole community of gamers.

There are those out there that are pointing at this as a movement of the 1%, but it really isn't... sure, the 1% are the first to respond, but plenty of folks I've never even heard of have signed The Letter, and lots of smaller casual units have approached me about it as well. From where I'm sitting, this group represents the MWO community's true diversity.

Edited by Stalkerr, 30 July 2013 - 04:35 AM.

[Volt Corsair]

Ramblin, on 30 July 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

"I need 5million c-bills to get my Atlas, you mind jumping into this private match with me and laying down a dozen times-ish so I can farm it up?"

"I would love to do that for you" Says no mech pilot ever...

I suppose you could make a dummy account for allowing your buddies to put the beat down on you but, if you are required to have a premium account to enter the private matches then its a win for PGI and your kind of jackass.

You do not pay for a private match just to farm C-Bills. You're doing it horribly wrong if you are. The only practical use for them is a tool for fan content and tournaments.

Edit - Double quoted by accident.

Edited by Volt Opt Construct, 30 July 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[ViperLam]

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...I suggest you look at it one kilometer at a time. Right now, all I see is an attempt at power grabbing. Prove me wrong.

[fil5000]

ViperLam, on 30 July 2013 - 04:57 AM, said:

The road to hell is paved with good intentions...I suggest you look at it one kilometer at a time. Right now, all I see is an attempt at power grabbing. Prove me wrong.

What power do you think is trying to be grabbed, based on the open letter? What power do you think PGI would possibly hand out? Burden of proof is on you, I'm afraid. We just want the game to succeed.

[arkani]

Ramblin, on 30 July 2013 - 03:45 AM, said:

"I need 5million c-bills to get my Atlas, you mind jumping into this private match with me and laying down a dozen times-ish so I can farm it up?"

"I would love to do that for you" Says no mech pilot ever...

I suppose you could make a dummy account for allowing your buddies to put the beat down on you but, if you are required to have a premium account to enter the private matches then its a win for PGI and your kind of jackass.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
Call the current system of matches "Arcade" or something else, were you get xp and grind c-bills
Private/Lobby matches would give zero xp and c-bill
CW matches again would give you xp, c-bil and whatever loyalty points is and whatever CW needs

[MustrumRidcully]

Private Lobbies?

The game would already be vastly improved by a public chat channel (yes, even if lots of trolls are on it) and private chat channels.

In a typical massive multiplayer game, if you have a noob question and are not a forum goer, you can always use the public chat. Ignore the "LOL, YOU'RE A NOOB" and "Press ALT-F4" replies, and read the actual helpful stuff.
If you're looking for a group, you can just ask in the public chat. Or, with a more refined system, in the LFG channel. Or in a more refined game, in the LFG system.

[Slaytronic]

I honestly love how you guys think anything will change.
I wouldn't bother a dead game is after all a dead game.

[xZaOx]

FiveDigits, on 30 July 2013 - 01:09 AM, said:

Regarding communication from PGI and the openness of development (or rather lack thereof) there was an interesting bit in the recent NGNG Podcast #82 (from the point linked to about 42:00).
PGI (represented by Garth here) seems to be genuinely afraid of communicating anything about the course of development to us - out of fear of negative feedback.

I don't get it. Compared to others this community is one of the most tame and constructive ones. Yet we seem to be so scary that we basically paralyze PGI's ability to communicate.

....Isn't it his job to talk to the community? Fearing to do your job?

Unlike tons of info and community contact: