740 replies to this topic

[fil5000]

The Man of Steel, on 05 August 2013 - 01:56 AM, said:

Oh okay, so the Money for 3rd Person integrating is spent good... seriously do people like you won´t see obvious wrong decisions???

There is so much other stuff to do but hey you get 3rd Person view, all fine then hah?

And i have to say.. i don´t bash them just for fun i bash em because i care about the Game, it is Fun it looks good but actually they just make ****** decisions and the Game doesnt work in his Basics as it should!
And 3rd Person View is definately not needed now or in September, maybe as a Christmas Present ... when they fix those other Issues till then.


Oh wait i remember they said something like: "There will be no 3rd Person view in our Game".... one Lie in a dozen....


I just Flame u say now? Do some research, i just telling the truth, thats the bitter Pill.

No, I don't think third person view is needed, but I don't think it's a useful target for ire.The heat scale is entirely fair game as we've had it instead of weapons being actually balanced, the fact that things don't hit where you aim them is also worth complaining about, but I don't think EITHER of those things has been affected by the implementation of third person. My point was more that PGI's development process isn't "Throw X number of people at problem Y until it is done, then move them to problem Z", each issue requires people with the correct skillset to deal with it, and there is unlikely to be a huge amount of crossover between "guy who can fix hit detection" and "guy who can make third person view".

I'm not saying you're wrong to be unhappy that a load of stuff is wrong with the game, just that third person view isn't the cause of those things being wrong, and those things would still be wrong even if we didn't have third person.

And please don't cap off your rant by telling me to "do my research". Do yours and look at my posts, I've not exactly been sitting here defending every decision PGI makes.

[Julius Septim]

I dont care about a number of Posts, really not. But i Agree with you that 3rd Person is not the only thing to Rant about.

It is and should be just an example whats going wrong, they got a HUGE Problem with settle IMPORTANT things.

The Heat Sclae Management what we go now is a drop on the Hot Stone, okay but nothing really changed.

We are in beta now almost 2 Years and my Experience from the Gameplay is... i want Closed Beta back.

Collision who actually CAUSE something not lagging through a Mech and come out behind/left/right/ABOVE it.... uuuuuuuhm... a little understandable what i´m sayin?
Lagshields got a way other description now then back in closed beta back then just lights were annoying, now... Cents, BJ, Cicadas, Awesomes) Hit them 10 times in some Matches and they get the damage from 2 hits.

Or the Freezing Games, hey u are about to win in a Game it is 6:2 for your team then your whole team gets a 10 second Freeze and u loose it.... good game? nope.. not really


Thats what i mean with.. FOCUS ON IMPORTANT CRAP GODDAMMM

Edited by The Man of Steel, 05 August 2013 - 02:26 AM.

[fil5000]

The Man of Steel, on 05 August 2013 - 02:17 AM, said:

I dont care about a number of Posts, really not. But i Agree with you that 3rd Person is not the only thing to Rant about.

It is and should be just an example whats going wrong, they got a HUGE Problem with settle IMPORTANT things.

The Heat Sclae Management what we go now is a drop on the Hot Stone, okay but nothing really changed.

My point was not about how many posts that I'd made, but that you had assumed I was in favour of how the game is being handled and then told me to "do my research". It's a bit rich to tell someone else to do something you haven't bothered doing yourself.

And again, third person isn't going to change anything from what I've seen of how it played out on the test server. If it pulls in more people then that's a decent business decision. It still has no impact on weapon balance, the heat scale or the absence community warfare. Third person is not an important part of any discussion as to the things currently wrong with MWO.

[Julius Septim]

I editet some times.. again sorry for being "cocky" but i am so pissed that they just run they´r game into the ground

PS: What i see at the Moment is that PGI tries to turn their Game into "Made for all" that doesnt work and will never work. Remember SWTOR??? Star Wars the old Republic? They tried exactly the same thing, that WoW line.. it DOESNT WORK!!!! And Swtor had alot more Money in their back then you (PGI) got here.. so stop this **** and do what u say when u started. Make a Mech SIM, thats what we want thats how it will work nothing less but nothing more... Actually u turn it to a Arcade Shooter Game. Stop it, stooooop it.

Edited by The Man of Steel, 05 August 2013 - 03:22 AM.

[Stalkerr]

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

[jozkhan]

Gimping new players right out of the start gate has got to end. Even hardened mechwarrior / battletech players I know dropped the game after a few games and spending $40 on it so as not to have to play trial mechs which are death traps. I bought a stock Jenner the other day to get my 3rd and thought I could just play it while grinding first game - death while overheating after my 2nd shot!

Trial Mechs have to go.

A meaningful and genuinely useful Tutorial is essential.

New Player only PUG games are essential. (Not the current lower ELO balony that nobody can even verify)
Perhaps new players need to be ringfenced during their 'cadet bonus' matches so they are not exposed to the perma-rage-quit inducing experience of being thrown to the wolves in 'normal' games.

Testing grounds MUST be fixed so they show the same results as in-game (I mean wth is the point if the results are different?)

The all-new-heat-scaling system MUST be made clear (?) to the new player in the UI (good luck with that one)

Encourage mentoring of new players with some sort of rewards system

Edited by jozkhan, 05 August 2013 - 04:57 AM.

[fil5000]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

Ok then -

1) A tutorial - we know this is in the works but we don't know what form it will take.
2) Transparency - if I build a mech and I have four weapons that generate nine heat each, if the amount of heat generated isn't 36 when I fire them all, SOMETHING should be telling me that within the interface. Don't mind whether it's mechlab or in game, but there should be something. This assumes that the heat penalty will stay.
3) A better mechlab in general - I'm not even sure how the complexity of the mechlab and fitting a mech can be streamlined, but it seems like something that players new to the franchise need.
4) In built voice comms. Make them optional, reference them in the tutorial so that players can turn them on if they want. I can understand why people don't want to use them, so they should be togglable.
5) Easier group formation. And from within the client too. Global chat, faction chat, something like that, just to get a group running.
6) Trial mechs that aren't hot garbage.
7) Better implementation of the matchmaker. Warning: Random numbers that have no basis in the Elo range MWO uses follow: At the moment if you have a four man group with three people with 2000 Elo and one with 500 Elo, my understanding is that it will try to match with a group that has a average Elo of 1625. That could mean that you get four people with 1625, or the same composition as your group, or a group with three awful players and one super good one. Or it could mean that you get matched against four solo droppers with an Elo of 1625. Elo works fine for 1v1 matching, but once you throw groups into the mix it seems to struggle, and it does so in ways that are detrimental to solo players and mixed ability groups.

[Stormwolf]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

A very good question, people need some kind of tutorial to understand the game.

I'd personally suggest:

Movement: Explain movement and have players move to various points on a map in a Jenner
Weapons: Get a mech like a Centurion because it has a missile/ballistic/laser loadout
Advanced functions: How the map works, ECM, etc

Use stock mechs in the tutorials.

After the tutorials the players should be able to select a mech from the light or medium class and be given 1.000.000 C-Bills for any potential customization (should be a reward for completing all tutorial missions).

There should also be a stock only mode, people can potentially play this mode and save up on money without having to be stuck in matches with min-maxed machines.

This creates potential for both stock and custom players. Stock players will be able to save up faster for new mechs, custom players will have early options for customization and have competative build ready in a couple of days.

Trial mechs should still be around, but they should be limited by faction (Dragons for DC, Centurions for FS/FC, etc). Trials should always drop in stock matches, even here they should be split by techbase (no mixing of level 1 and 2 designs unless people drop in two premades).

[jozkhan]

good points fil, in addition to the voice comms there really needs to be a better system of ingame keyboard based comms and a ping button (like LOL) God I seem to have been going on about this throughout open beta!

It's all very well for them to say 'it's being worked on' but Launch is where it needs to be in place because that's where the games world at large will judge us - metacritic etc (reviewers, games sites and mags are all holding off saying what they really think til launch and they will only say it once - the beta grace review period is about to end)

If the new player experience is not tied to launch then theres a big problem right there.

Plus a great deal of everything else wrong with MWO should only follow on from resolving the new player experience first. It is quite literally the Foundation

Edited by jozkhan, 05 August 2013 - 05:21 AM.

[fil5000]

Yeah, some old school Counterstrike style quick text/voice comms would be a good idea. Go here, cover me, shoot that guy, etc etc.

[Kageru Ikazuchi]

How to improve the new player experience ...
- Manual and tutorial are essential (probably not coming until after U.I. 2.0, though).
- Meaningful information splashed during loading and patching.
- Lobbies in the client.
- (From the town hall) Make the first 25 (but it could be any relatively low number) games in a simulated environment with other new players ... unlimited CB and MC to customize any one mech at a time, drop with it, and try it out, with XP and C-Bill awards.
- Minor award (say, a "recruiter" banner to hang in your cockpit) for dropping for several matches in a group with new players.

[keith]

hum i wonder. now that they got a 3rd person cam working, i wonder if they can turn that into a rear facing view for us. u know that option that been in all other mech games. or get a working 4x zoom so we can sniper better since that was a main reason they took away blue vision. i wouldn't mind 3rd person(not that i wold play it) if they locked the FOV. looking at the screen shots moving FOV increases your tactical advantage. maybe some good can come of them working on 3rd person view

[Julius Septim]

- Overall Game experience... lesser lags (u can´t care em all i know but not as much as we got)
- Hit Detection
- More Game Modes
- Collisions


Oh and last but not Least a dev team who cares....

............

Edited by The Man of Steel, 05 August 2013 - 05:41 AM.

[Silent]

Tutorial

Offline Mechlab with everything unlocked for experimentation in a proving ground setting with limited AI, or no AI.

The ability to save your loadouts and customizations from the above environment and bring them into the online environment without having to consult a notepad or some third-party application. You should also be able to share these loadouts with other players in-game. If a friend likes what you are running you should be able to send it to them and they should be able to load it into their Mechlab without having to fight with the interface or build it themselves.

New players starting the game for the first time should be able to opt into some kind of Newbie Chill Zone (which they can leave at any time) where they can hang out and play the game with other newbies. C-bill/XP earnings can be increased during this time so they have a good foothold before they are thrown into the real game. After a certain amount of time, or certain numbers being exceeded in their score, they'd be thrown into the proper game. You could have special newbie events, community volunteers answering questions, etc.

[Ramblin]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

LOBBY

[Gwaihir]

[Redacted]
Also, a full tutorial like Hawken's or War thunder, with a light or medium mech + pile of cbills rewards should be a no brainer. Trial mechs are hot garbage, for real.

Edited by Niko Snow, 06 August 2013 - 05:30 AM.
Thou Shalt Not Mine Game Files

[Stalephreak]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

1. get rid of fuzzy maths or complex solutions to simple problems (heat) OCKHAM'S RAZOR - the simple solution is usually the correct one (and easier to understand/explain) 2. A tutorial of some kind 3. the game has to have some reason for the combat. Like it or not, even mech 1 had A STORY LINE to follow. We had a watered down HPG feed, but they gave up on that. 4 tighten up the coding for lesser built machines. Yes, this is not easy, but how many people are going to "fiddle with it" for just two game modes that really play pretty much the same. (Speaking of which, has DX11 been implemented yet? If not, why are they still coding on the old DX? Seems like asking for trouble, using outdated conventions and possibly obsolete function calls and all.)

Edited by Stalephreak, 05 August 2013 - 07:03 AM.

[Miekael]

Great question and outstanding replies to it.

I also favor a single player tutorial with voice over commands to help explain to new players all the basic functions of the game. I would even expand on this by having the tutorial start with building a mech in the mechlab, then having the player drop in the exercise in the mech they just built. Completion of the tutorial would reward a light/medium mech of choice and I would keep the cadet bonus so they could get a quick stash of C-bills. I also like the idea of having people who still earn the cadet bonus in their own queue.

Edit: A little expansion, I would probably have the tutorial build something like the Highlander, this way the new player would run through the tutorial will all the weapon groups on their mech, including the different types of missiles, and give the player access to jump jet practice, since that is a prevailing mechanic in the game.

In game VOIP is a must at this point, and the same goes for keyboard commands like what the BF/CS series has done. New players spend a few games getting stomped, and I think most would quit before looking for a group to drop with.

A player guide with expanded information from the tutorial would be awesome.

As for trial mechs, I do like the idea of having four random mechs that you can drop in to get a feel for, but given the current tech advancement of the game, the nature of matchmaking, and the current meta, it has got to be the worst way to start a new player. They can remain, but they shouldn't be the only alternative to not paying money for the game.

Edited by Miekael, 05 August 2013 - 07:18 AM.

[Julius Septim]

Trial Mechs should be (i repeat) SHOULD BE Champion designed mechs, with DHS, Endo Steel and all that good stuff that new Players can get INTO the Game at a level with the others (Mech dependant, a experienced Player with a lil piece of Brain can buttf...k a complete new one with a stock mech)


How to control this "make a new acc" shitheads? IP, no one can tell me they got no IP´s... seriously.. u cant prevent all but alot from doing so.

[Kraven Kor]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

1. An actual tutorial. Three to Five episodes, 10 to 15 minute long each; tutorial missions that actually teach you how to play the game (basic torso / leg movement and terrain specifics like slope mechanics, falling damage, etc; weapon and heat functionality, targeting, ECM / BAP usage, TAG / NARC / Artemis and missile lock, AMS, etc.)

2. A "cadet queue" where you do your first 25 or so matches against only other new players. "Starting ELO at zero" would just be abused. This lets us keep "trial mechs" but in a way where you aren't fighting a trial mech against a fully customized mech.

3. Overhaul this website to provide actual useful information - MWOMercs.com should have just as good of information on every mech chassis, variant, and weapon system or piece of equipment as you find on any of the mech-maker sites like smurfy's (but keep it to where there is no mech-builder here so as to give a reason for smurfy's and such to exist.)

4. Get rid of all the confusing garbage and make sure things are straightforward and simple - ie. kill the boating heat ghost penalty. 4 heat plus 4 heat should be 8 heat.

5. Rebalance weapons vs. armor such that weapons do their TT values over a 10 second time period, plus 25% or so (For instance: A large laser would do up to 10 damage, for 10 heat, over 10 seconds, that being dealt in 1 second bursts that do 3.33 damage each with a 2.33 second delay between firing (as a rough example.) A PPC would do, say, 3.5 damage per shot with a refire delay of 3 seconds thus dealing about 12 damage per 10 seconds. Make all math simple, understandable, and not subject to hidden rules and such. Note this would also help kill the high-alpha metagame and generally, I would think, make fights last a touch longer.

6. Rework all game modes such that teams - on all maps, on all modes - are *forced* to divide up. Make larger maps have multiple spawn points - for instance on Alpine, 8 players spawn near current spawn, 4 others spawn at Epsilon or Kappa, so you have two teams. Then make all maps have more than one objective, with optional objectives for bonus points / money / whatever, so that marching your full team together and instantly vaporizing the first mech you see is NOT the best or even a good plan.