740 replies to this topic

[Julius Septim]

Kraven Kor, on 05 August 2013 - 07:16 AM, said:

6. Rework all game modes such that teams - on all maps, on all modes - are *forced* to divide up. Make larger maps have multiple spawn points - for instance on Alpine, 8 players spawn near current spawn, 4 others spawn at Epsilon or Kappa, so you have two teams. Then make all maps have more than one objective, with optional objectives for bonus points / money / whatever, so that marching your full team together and instantly vaporizing the first mech you see is NOT the best or even a good plan.

Maps are already too big or too small... implement a Lobby - Problem solved OR a Tonnage Limit. Problem also solved in "too heavy too light mechs meaning"

[keith]

Miekael, on 05 August 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Great question and outstanding replies to it.

I also favor a single player tutorial with voice over commands to help explain to new players all the basic functions of the game. I would even expand on this by having the tutorial start with building a mech in the mechlab, then having the player drop in the exercise in the mech they just built. Completion of the tutorial would reward a light/medium mech of choice and I would keep the cadet bonus so they could get a quick stash of C-bills. I also like the idea of having people who still earn the cadet bonus in their own queue.

when i think of single player tutorial i think of MW2(clan one). all they need is something basic like they had. okay run some nav points. run some nav point while torso twisted. shot some guns at targets. shot guns at moving targets. shot guns while moving. think they had a few extra things in there. just doing that as an intro they say hey is a free mech+ cbills just enough to put some different weps on. then go with current system would help. don't need to rip out the whole system just rework it some. hell give everyone to start the best mech ever, the trash can:P

[Kraven Kor]

The Man of Steel, on 05 August 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Maps are already too big or too small... implement a Lobby - Problem solved OR a Tonnage Limit. Problem also solved in "too heavy too light mechs meaning"

I prefer using (better / actual) map objectives to force teams to split up. To each their own, but I think many of the "meta" problems can be fixed by altering gameplay objectives.

[Miekael]

keith, on 05 August 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

when i think of single player tutorial i think of MW2(clan one). all they need is something basic like they had. okay run some nav points. run some nav point while torso twisted. shot some guns at targets. shot guns at moving targets. shot guns while moving. think they had a few extra things in there. just doing that as an intro they say hey is a free mech+ cbills just enough to put some different weps on. then go with current system would help. don't need to rip out the whole system just rework it some. hell give everyone to start the best mech ever, the trash can:P

Yeah every other MW game I can think of had that simple walk though, and it helped me a lot with both learning and setting up controls before I played the game itself.

[MustrumRidcully]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

Step 1)
A real in-game tutorial that teaches the controls. Ideally with non-stationary targets.

Step 2)
If you can't fix the heat system so that stock mechs are useable, players should have a choice of starter mechs that are their own and can be customized. (If necessary, make these have some drawbacks, like less XP gain or whatever).
The mech should definitely not have single heat sinks, and it should have a simple weaopn loadout to use (so not mixing too many different weapons with different behaviour).

Step 3)
Chat Interface available everywhere with a generic public chat channel, or even a "new player" channel that is active on default. This way, whenever a new player has a question, he can ask it. If there's a dedicated new player chat room, consider moderating it in some form to keep out trolls, but that might not even be needed. My experience tells me that there are always people willing to help, and while there are also always trolls, you can generally get good information and give good information in such channels.

Step 4)
Match-Maker must smarten up. New players should mostly play with other new players - not just the teams must be in the similar ELO range, every member of the team must have a similar Elo as everyone else. Maybe add 1 or 2 more experienced and higher-ranked players on both teams, so they can act as a "trainer". (Heck, if they want to go far, "trainer" could become a special queue mode.)

---

EDIT: Lobbies could be an alternate take to step 3 and 4.

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

Step 1)
A real in-game tutorial that teaches the controls. Ideally with non-stationary targets.

Step 2)
If you can't fix the heat system so that stock mechs are useable, players should have a choice of starter mechs that are their own and can be customized. (If necessary, make these have some drawbacks, like less XP gain or whatever).
The mech should definitely not have single heat sinks, and it should have a simple weaopn loadout to use (so not mixing too many different weapons with different behaviour).

Step 3)
Chat Interface available everywhere with a generic public chat channel, or even a "new player" channel that is active on default. This way, whenever a new player has a question, he can ask it. If there's a dedicated new player chat room, consider moderating it in some form to keep out trolls, but that might not even be needed. My experience tells me that there are always people willing to help, and while there are also always trolls, you can generally get good information and give good information in such channels.

Step 4)
Match-Maker must smarten up. New players should mostly play with other new players - not just the teams must be in the similar ELO range, every member of the team must have a similar Elo as everyone else. Maybe add 1 or 2 more experienced and higher-ranked players on both teams, so they can act as a "trainer". (Heck, if they want to go far, "trainer" could become a special queue mode.)

Edited by MustrumRidcully, 05 August 2013 - 07:39 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

OH, and on Single Heat Sinks:

Either make SHS / DHS an actual choice (SHS = higher capacity, DHS = higher dissipation for example) or get rid of SHS entirely.

[Stalephreak]

I guess that's another thing... PGI has to take up the slack for things that 3rd parties have done. 1. leaderboards for competition (eliminate the NEED FOR SYNCDROPS) 2. a more efficient mech builder/lab (smurfy is perfect) 3. comms These are all things that were outsourced to the community. We solved it, but we shouldn't have had to make up for the game's short-falls.

[fil5000]

Stalephreak, on 05 August 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

I guess that's another thing... PGI has to take up the slack for things that 3rd parties have done. 1. leaderboards for competition (eliminate the NEED FOR SYNCDROPS) 2. a more efficient mech builder/lab (smurfy is perfect) 3. comms These are all things that were outsourced to the community. We solved it, but we shouldn't have had to make up for the game's short-falls.

Mechlab improvements are absolutely needed. For the new player experience I don't know that leaderboards are needed.

[Kraven Kor]

fil5000, on 05 August 2013 - 07:49 AM, said:

Mechlab improvements are absolutely needed. For the new player experience I don't know that leaderboards are needed.

For "NPE" no, leaderboards are not needed.

In general, yes, leaderboards "would be a nice gesture" - particularly to the competitive units and clans and such.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 05 August 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[Filter41]

Kraven Kor, on 05 August 2013 - 07:42 AM, said:

OH, and on Single Heat Sinks:

Either make SHS / DHS an actual choice (SHS = higher capacity, DHS = higher dissipation for example) or get rid of SHS entirely.

sry kraven but i can not agree with you. i like the actual way, which forces you to think about "cool" builds, when you buy a new mech (and dont have the money for DHS). Try and error on building mechs is part of the game i think. Of course it needs a gentle way to introduce new players in that joyful activity... to keep things more simple and organized (intuitive heat scaling, better ui, offline mechlab, etc.) wo be a good start for that case.

[Stalephreak]

I disagree on the leaderboard issue. While it's not important per-se, a noob is far more likely to take advice from the winner than the loser.

[Julius Septim]

Those who tell a "noob" a PPC, PPC/Gauss Boat is good, actually failed their Leadership at all.... sry but they´re not that good as most opf the competitive player thinks... it´s just hard to tell the others to fit something else.

[Kraven Kor]

Filter41, on 05 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

sry kraven but i can not agree with you. i like the actual way, which forces you to think about "cool" builds, when you buy a new mech (and dont have the money for DHS). Try and error on building mechs is part of the game i think. Of course it needs a gentle way to introduce new players in that joyful activity... to keep things more simple and organized (intuitive heat scaling, better ui, offline mechlab, etc.) wo be a good start for that case.

Then there are exactly three builds where SHS are preferred to DHS.

Either SHS need a reason to exist, or new players are just being punished until they can afford DHS.

It is redonkulous.

Edit: Have I mentioned lately that this website / these forums are terrible and whoever administers it should feel terrible? Page never displays my post just locks at "saving" until I reload, and in this case my post had the quoted post copied 17 times.

Edited by Kraven Kor, 05 August 2013 - 08:38 AM.

[Wilburg]

Assuming a tutorial is coming (first f***** step!!!)
No.2 : Review Trial-Mechs. I liked the suggestion in the Townhall pretty much: let players design the Trial-Mechs like already happened with the Dragon.
No 2.2: if not, at least give them DHS

fil5000, on 05 August 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

2) Transparency - if I build a mech and I have four weapons that generate nine heat each, if the amount of heat generated isn't 36 when I fire them all, SOMETHING should be telling me that within the interface. Don't mind whether it's mechlab or in game, but there should be something. This assumes that the heat penalty will stay.

No 3: to get an idea of your mech, the mere stats are essential. Even smurfy implemented a "you´ll get a heat penalty with this built"-hint. As the heatefficiency in the mechlab is calculated for an Alpha, it shouldn´t bee too hard to include the penalty (assuming they understood what they were implementing).

No 4: Beginners only queues. Even if they play only a 4 on 4 because there are not enough players available, it is better than getting stomped.

Edit: and as communication seems to be shut down, could anyone please refresh the MechaLingua facts and dates or aren´t they allowed here?

Edited by Wilburg, 05 August 2013 - 10:04 AM.

[Miekael]

Wilburg, on 05 August 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Edit: and as communication seems to be shut down, could anyone please refresh the MechaLingua facts and dates or aren´t they allowed here?

I think the hamster powering the forums died sometime on Saturday, hopefully now that it is Monday the pet store is open and he can be replaced.

In all seriousness, I too would like to see the next Mecha Lingua details posted so I don't have to go off what I remember.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Stalkerr, on 05 August 2013 - 04:36 AM, said:

Man, I go away for a weekend and there are tons of posts to read. My only disappointment is that very few folks are talking about actual solutions, so lets get started back on that track, shall we?

QUESTION: In what ways should the new player experience be improved, such that any one of us can feel free to invite one of our non-robot-playing friends here, secure in the knowledge that they'll be able to pick this up without us holding their hand the entire time?

The new user experience is simple PGI have just completely skipped over it.

1) New players are given a choice of 2-4 initial mechs of which they can purchase 1 for free - could be any random variant of any chassis in the game in the selection pool.

2) An In depth tutorial, honestly this is not difficult and doesn't even have to be online, they have testing grounds, add some voice from any given dev (free!) that walks the player through a series of actions teaching them the controls.
Honestly this shouldn't even take a day of dev time.

3) Remodel trial mechs geared and customized in variants most used by the community playing the game, this data should already being collated by PGI so should be fairly effortless to implement.
Trial mechs have the same negatives attached to them as the current form, but are now optimal variants available for people to try before they buy.........See LoL free champion rotation.

4) FIX FREAKING ELO TO WORK PROPERLY!

Job done.

These forums are a joke...never known such a bad and unreliable implementation.

Edited by DV McKenna, 05 August 2013 - 09:10 AM.

[Protection]

Improved New Player Experience

All mechs come with double heatsinks. Single heatsinks remain as a purchasable downgrade.

All heavy, medium, and light mechs come with Endo Steel.

All light mechs come equipped with the largest possible XL engine.

Remove stock mechs from the game and pretend that they never existed and have no place in this universe, and make all builds into usable custom designs.

No "stock" custom design has more than two three weapon groups.

Edited by Protection, 05 August 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Kraven Kor]

Protection, on 05 August 2013 - 09:42 AM, said:

Improved New Player Experience

All mechs come with double heatsinks. Single heatsinks remain as a purchasable downgrade.

All heavy, medium, and light mechs come with Endo Steel.

All light mechs come equipped with the largest possible XL engine.

Remove stock mechs from the game and pretend that they never existed and have no place in this universe, and make all builds into usable custom designs.

No "stock" custom design has more than two three weapon groups.

Or do something to where we don't have to do any of that, while still making things more balanced one against another somehow.

Basically, Protection's suggestions would work in the current game, but we shouldn't have to go to that level of homogenization to achieve some type of parity between stock mechs and custom mechs, NPE, etc.

Protection, your suggestion would (in my opinion) create a situation where pretty much everyone just used one of the 5 or 6 "accepted" builds and will kill customization.

We want to encourage variety in builds; the only way to do that is to ensure a variety of builds are in fact viable.

[Protection]

Kraven Kor, on 05 August 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Or do something to where we don't have to do any of that, while still making things more balanced one against another somehow.

Basically, Protection's suggestions would work in the current game, but we shouldn't have to go to that level of homogenization to achieve some type of parity between stock mechs and custom mechs, NPE, etc.

Protection, your suggestion would (in my opinion) create a situation where pretty much everyone just used one of the 5 or 6 "accepted" builds and will kill customization.

We want to encourage variety in builds; the only way to do that is to ensure a variety of builds are in fact viable.

I'd love a situation like that, but PGI is totally unwilling to make significant changes to that end.

We need a reason for single heatsinks to be competitive with doubles.

A reason for ferro-fibrous to compete with endo-steel, and a reason to choose neither on anything short of an assault mech.

Large engines need to be less rewarding and small engines need a larger benefit.

These all require fundamental changes - not just in game but to address fundamental Battletech flaws, and PGI doesn't seem to have the confidence or competence to do this, which is why I suggested the former idea.

[Chronojam]

keith, on 05 August 2013 - 07:21 AM, said:

when i think of single player tutorial i think of MW2(clan one). all they need is something basic like they had. okay run some nav points. run some nav point while torso twisted. shot some guns at targets. shot guns at moving targets. shot guns while moving. think they had a few extra things in there. just doing that as an intro they say hey is a free mech+ cbills just enough to put some different weps on. then go with current system would help. don't need to rip out the whole system just rework it some. hell give everyone to start the best mech ever, the trash can:P

I've always figured it would help to have the player's mech move on its own down a track while the user controls the torso and arms, to hammer home the concept that they are individual parts. MW2's training had a part where you had to manage to stay on course by yourself, but it wouldn't hurt to have that part be automatic.