257 replies to this topic

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Fierostetz, on 07 June 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

As I've said a bunch of times in the preceding pages - I rescinded this post after they buffed medium movement a while back. And I wanted a single sidestep, not strafing. If I could alter a thread title I would.

You should be able to edit.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 08 June 2014 - 09:19 AM.

[Modo44]

Contact a mod?

[Alaskan Nobody]

Fierostetz, on 07 June 2014 - 10:27 PM, said:

If I could alter a thread title I would.

You can - apparently there is a way you personally can, but I haven't figured that out yet.

Contacting support can get it done though.

(report the thread and give "change of thread title" or something similar as the reason)

Edit: I only read the first couple, and last couple posts before I posted - shoulda read more I guess.
(missed the rephrasing in your OP)

Edited by Shar Wolf, 09 June 2014 - 10:27 AM.

[ExAstra]

And how exactly do you propose the actuation system for a 100 ton mech to be able to lift one leg off of the ground, direct it to the side slightly, put it down, and follow suit with the other leg and expect that to be good at dodging, well, anything?

The mech's legs aren't built for that, and a 50+ ton war machine is not going to be capable of doing such. The mechs currently stretch the imagination to the brink of what is technically plausible/possible if we were to actually create war machine's like these. Interface and weapons systems aside, the mechanics of the movements and all are fairly close to being plausible. (I think the getting up and down part is a bit of a stretch though)

But that side to side movement just can't happen. The mech's legs aren't built like ours, they're designed to move the mech forward and backward.

[Clit Beastwood]

ExAstra, on 13 July 2014 - 04:48 AM, said:

And how exactly do you propose the actuation system for a 100 ton mech to be able to lift one leg off of the ground, direct it to the side slightly, put it down, and follow suit with the other leg and expect that to be good at dodging, well, anything?

The mech's legs aren't built for that, and a 50+ ton war machine is not going to be capable of doing such. The mechs currently stretch the imagination to the brink of what is technically plausible/possible if we were to actually create war machine's like these. Interface and weapons systems aside, the mechanics of the movements and all are fairly close to being plausible. (I think the getting up and down part is a bit of a stretch though)

But that side to side movement just can't happen. The mech's legs aren't built like ours, they're designed to move the mech forward and backward.

You apparently replied without reading the preceding pages.

If a mech were built without any lateral movement to the legs, it would not be able to walk on sloped surfaces. The same actuators, joints, and myomer required for a mech to walk across sloped surfaces would be more than sufficient for a single shuffled step to the side. There's plenty of data on this in the preceding pages, but the buff to mediums several months ago mitigated the original request (also discussed in the preceding pages). It's ill advised to reply to a thread without reading it first.

[Vlad Striker]

I think 'yes' but this sort of movement must be very slow.

[Juodas Varnas]

Yes.
If the mech is a Quadruped.
Would be the trade-off for no Torso-twist (kind of like Vanu tanks from Planetside - ability to strafe, but no turret)

[Burktross]

Crouching?
Yes.

Sidestepping.
No. Muh Tank with guns!

[Jagg3d]

I voted no. Where is the unique play? It's like a player in world of tanks to make tanks side drive without turning the gun barrel. Turn your torso left or right and move forward or back if you want a magic button make a macro.

[CheapSushi]

I noticed people say yes to crouching but no to sidestepping because sidestepping is seen as useless or not needed. But I'm thinking, what is the use in crouching (in MWO)? If you're biased you'll find all kinds of "positive" reasoning for crouching but I could still argue it's a waste to do anyway. Plus if would be a slow action. You'd just be asking to get alpha'd or flanked. But a sidestep? Impossibruuuu. Ehhh.

Also others mention it would make the game feel more like CoD or Hawken. but honestly on most maps, it's already a clunky pseudo-wannabe CoD game. I haven't played long but I rarely actually feel like a giant robot. The more humanoid mechs even make the game look more bland in my opinion (even if lore) because very few of the maps, movement and animations give the impression that this isn't just a generic FPS with some robot cosmetic / aesthetic.

Sidestep wouldn't hurt the game or make it feel like CoD. It already is like that anyway.

Edited by CheapSushi, 08 October 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Mannson]

I always thought that while some mechs may have the actuators and whatnot to sidestep.. They just lack the sidestepping buttons/functions/mechanism/leg programming. Give it a century or two (in MWO's timeline) and mayhaps those crazy IS engineers figure out some of that extra leg action may prove useful.

[londenar]

I say no to any sort of sidestepping on bipedal mechs because its not something that can happen in the tabletop. If they ever manage to put quad mechs in, strafing would actually be required on those; but until that happens, since its not a legal movement in the tabletop, it shouldnt be a legal move in MWO. On that point, mechs should all have the same ability to hill climb. Institute a weight-class based speed penalty to the climb maybe, but any slope a locust can climb a king crab should be able to as well....ruleswise anyway.

[Generic Internetter]

If sidestepping exists in BattleTech lore and/or TableTop, then it should be added, but only as a one-time step (Not a side-run).

Crouching was featured in a previous MechWarrior game (MW4?). I was suprised to see it absent in MWO. PGI pls add.

[Commander A9]

You already CAN strafe. Twist legs 90-degrees left or right, then move forward.

[Astarot]

Right, I just want to post some technical data.

Side step mechanics, I'm pretty sure actually exist in battletech rules under "experimental rules" or Battletech tactical operations handbook. If I remember correctly, they have a number of different movement types that depend heavily on pilot skill to perform. If you fail a roll, it would also have some serious consequences, which include, but not limited to, damage to the legs, damage to the torso, damage to the engine, falling over, and so forth. However how do you simulate these rule sets and roles? Do you now start skilling your character so that they are better at something? Just like the old battle tech, upgrading gunnery, then upgrading piloting, depending on what you want? Or do you go down MWO's new route where you can actually specialize in something?

As for the hip joints moving like human joints, that a YES AND NO, Depending on the mech actually has a massive impact on the range of movement that mech has involving the hip, the Mad cat for example as a much more limited range of movement due to the fact that a lot of actuators to simulate that stuff is spread trough out the leg, as demostrated here:

" http://www.planet25....riginal_205.jpg "

While it seems that humanoid mechs have a much much wider range of movement involving the hips, an example art work of different mechs, with different leg types, in different positions

http://orig04.devian..._by_eriance.png

You have to remember that while the pilot helps with the balance and other such things, mechs have all sort of different leg designs, and thus all models have a different range of limitations and bonuses, while a humanoid legs would greatly benefit climbing, and rough terrain, a reverse joint mech tends to have a much faster flat terrain bonus.

AND ALL OF THIS, is very difficult to simulate in a game, and keep balance at the same time.

[Clit Beastwood]

Astarot, on 12 January 2016 - 11:12 PM, said:

Right, I just want to post some technical data.

Side step mechanics, I'm pretty sure actually exist in battletech rules under "experimental rules" or Battletech tactical operations handbook. If I remember correctly, they have a number of different movement types that depend heavily on pilot skill to perform. If you fail a roll, it would also have some serious consequences, which include, but not limited to, damage to the legs, damage to the torso, damage to the engine, falling over, and so forth. However how do you simulate these rule sets and roles? Do you now start skilling your character so that they are better at something? Just like the old battle tech, upgrading gunnery, then upgrading piloting, depending on what you want? Or do you go down MWO's new route where you can actually specialize in something?

As for the hip joints moving like human joints, that a YES AND NO, Depending on the mech actually has a massive impact on the range of movement that mech has involving the hip, the Mad cat for example as a much more limited range of movement due to the fact that a lot of actuators to simulate that stuff is spread trough out the leg, as demostrated here:

" http://www.planet25....riginal_205.jpg "

While it seems that humanoid mechs have a much much wider range of movement involving the hips, an example art work of different mechs, with different leg types, in different positions

http://orig04.devian..._by_eriance.png

You have to remember that while the pilot helps with the balance and other such things, mechs have all sort of different leg designs, and thus all models have a different range of limitations and bonuses, while a humanoid legs would greatly benefit climbing, and rough terrain, a reverse joint mech tends to have a much faster flat terrain bonus.

AND ALL OF THIS, is very difficult to simulate in a game, and keep balance at the same time.

Some changes to movement mechanics and decreased PPC speeds have really negated my original request - for anyone reading now, the PPC's used to move so fast there was no way to dodge them, even at long range, so a side step would've been really handy for avoiding 700m ppc shots. At this point, it's pretty moot. I'd close the thread but I don't think I can - people keep necro'ing it.

[Astarot]

Fierostetz, on 13 January 2016 - 12:50 PM, said:

Some changes to movement mechanics and decreased PPC speeds have really negated my original request - for anyone reading now, the PPC's used to move so fast there was no way to dodge them, even at long range, so a side step would've been really handy for avoiding 700m ppc shots. At this point, it's pretty moot. I'd close the thread but I don't think I can - people keep necro'ing it.

Well here the thing, the idea of addition movement options would be fantastic, I do agree with that, things like crouching, "leaning" or even side stepping could be done well if the spirit of the slow, heavy weighted mechs was still kept in place, There has been experimental rules before that allowed for this kind of things, granted in most tournaments style environments they tend to ban experimental rule books due to the shear balancing problems because certain mech combinations and equipment combinations did become extremely over powered under experimental rule set. however I feel that some of those experimental rules would be more balanced due to the fact that we arn't controlling an entire lance as one person, AND we are in a first person perspective so certain "overpowered" rule sets could become tricky and difficult maneuvers that give advantage to those that are willing to master said skills, and in turn be a determent to those not willing to take the time to understand the skills and their proper counters.

[Exilyth]

Let's leave the sidestepping for the quads.