341 replies to this topic

[Aim64C]

R Razor, on 28 July 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Can you imagine what in-game VOIP is going to be like when everyone hears everyone else? Good God, think about how the forums look right now, most of the punks around here are going to be so busy insulting each others mother they won't have time to coordinate in the game.

Someone I dropped with said it best, the X-Box generation effect, punk kids with no maturity.

That's why even the simplistic xbox has mute options.

More sophisticated online games have local chat groups and global chat groups that can be cycled between (for input, especially).

A game like this would respond well to such things. Your default chat in the full open lobby (assuming we ever get one) is global with no team specifics. Then it defaults to your team during the mission load and drop. Then it defaults to your lance. You could shift between VOIP channels (lance, team, global) as necessary.

The defaults would be good ways of limiting beadwindow-7 borne infractions over VOIP.

Though, honestly, the PC gaming population seems to be far better behaved than the Xbox variety. That, or the Xbox gaming population is just so much larger that the number of childish gamers is simply larger (even though the percentage is similar). Though I suspect a demographic analysis would show that Xbox gamers tend to behave differently toward each other than PC gamers.

[Keifomofutu]

Waking One, on 28 July 2013 - 09:58 AM, said:

If they have a premade, so do you, they won't have 2 of them and you 0.

Those games happen all the time, whether you are running a premade or not. Stop trying to make the game **** for people who enjoy playing with friends.

Bull. I've seen plenty of games against two enemy lances with matching colours vs both our lances having multiple trial mechs. The distribution of premades is close enough to completely random that it doesn't seem to care which team gets the premades. Supposedly Elo should fix this but it seems to give up on creating a balanced match very quickly and just seems to grab anyone.

Edited by Keifomofutu, 28 July 2013 - 11:11 AM.

[Crazycajun]

One Medic Army, on 27 July 2013 - 04:01 PM, said:

Yes, that was probably a premade.
You probably also had a premade on your own team.
I can assure you that the frequency of encountering enemy premades jumps significantly when I myself am in a premade.

i love how some of you try your hardest to throw dirt over this situation ... so hard its like ur tryin to keep ur ownselves from being forced into the situation were u would actually have to play other teams stead of pugstumping ur stats..

dont get me wrong i like jumping into premades to...but when i can prefer the 8 mans.. not the ludicrous bs some of u do..
8 mans was brought in for a reason...

And NO ..no matter how hard u might scream it... 4 mans are rarely ever matched up against each other... the matches usually end up with 1 side haven a 4 man and the other just pure pugs..its all in how and when your premade drops that dictate it.. now sometimes u can end up with 2 4 mans on one side.. but that one is the rare one..

all pgi needs to do is like with the 8 mans...match the 4 man team against other 4 man teams...or mix two 4 man grps against 2 other 4mans...this system is not hard to do.. but this is pgi... so yea maybe it is.

on the subject of voice comms... okay yea asking players to use c3 is like telling someone to jump back in time.. But that is why there is all these community TS3 threads/sites etc.. there even some clans with open ts3 that welcome other players to join..they've all been advertising em ... just do some searching and you will find em if u wana get on comms that bad.. i would but atm im on a tear of hate =D and prob wouldn't be welcome on half of em..sorry guys = /

Edited by Crazycajun, 28 July 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Adridos]

R Razor, on 28 July 2013 - 08:42 AM, said:

Someone I dropped with said it best, the X-Box generation effect, punk kids with no maturity.

Just some food for thought, but the generation that is the average for this game is around 25-35 years old. Blaming kids who only ever played on Xbox 360 won't help...

As far as the topic goes, I'm all for Pugs getting any way to actually coordinate. We can't talk to each other, gestures (shoutouts) are unheard of and when we try to use the silliest method possible, writing letters to each other, we are even actively punished by non-working backspace.

I've played hundreds of games in my life, but I've never seen one that punishes trying to communicaty with your team more.

[Crazycajun]

Keifomofutu, on 28 July 2013 - 11:10 AM, said:

Bull. I've seen plenty of games against two enemy lances with matching colours vs both our lances having multiple trial mechs. The distribution of premades is close enough to completely random that it doesn't seem to care which team gets the premades. Supposedly Elo should fix this but it seems to give up on creating a balanced match very quickly and just seems to grab anyone.

that is pretty much what MM does...it built to grab whats available..match it best it can against mechs of the same 'cough" elo class etc and throw em together...sadly the system can be worked to work in your favor if u do it right.

[Hellcat420]

Crazycajun, on 28 July 2013 - 11:24 AM, said:

i love how some of you try your hardest to throw dirt over this situation ... so hard its like ur tryin to keep ur ownselves from being forced into the situation were u would actually have to play other teams stead of pugstumping ur stats..

dont get me wrong i like jumping into premades to...but when i can prefer the 8 mans.. not the ludicrous bs some of u do..
8 mans was brought in for a reason...

And NO ..no matter how hard u might scream it... 4 mans are rarely ever matched up against each other... the matches usually end up with 1 side haven a 4 man and the other just pure pugs..its all in how and when your premade drops that dictate it.. now sometimes u can end up with 2 4 mans on one side.. but that one is the rare one..

all pgi needs to do is like with the 8 mans...match the 4 man team against other 4 man teams...or mix two 4 man grps against 2 other 4mans...this system is not hard to do.. but this is pgi... so yea maybe it is.

on the subject of voice comms... okay yea asking players to use c3 is like telling someone to jump back in time.. But that is why there is all these community TS3 threads/sites etc.. there even some clans with open ts3 that welcome other players to join..they've all been advertising em ... just do some searching and you will find em if u wana get on comms that bad.. i would but atm im on a tear of hate =D and prob wouldn't be welcome on half of em..sorry guys = /

there was 100% a 4 man premade on op's team.

[Cybermech]

Sure different ques would be nice, ones were its just "puggers" living the pug life.
However it is not a top priority for things to come over the next month or two.
Even the fact that the game is in beta might be the major reason not to do this.
Can create negative effects like low active users and longer searching for matches.
Right now work is being done on hit detection and has been for a long time including hunting down a lot of bugs.
There is talk about many things, its a slow process at MWO.

[No Guts No Glory]

Hellcat420, on 28 July 2013 - 11:39 AM, said:

there was 100% a 4 man premade on op's team.

Care to enlighten us all on how you know?

And I'll say this here too:

All PGI has to do is have MM force a similar number of grouped players onto each team with groups being indicated in the scoreboard. They can then remove group size restriction. Doesn't split the player base so no terrible queue times. Players can drop with any number of friends. There is no valid argument anyone can make against this.

[MechGorilla]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 27 July 2013 - 05:05 PM, said:

this is why there needs to be solo and team ques! This is why voip is not the answer!

And then people will start to actually use the command interface (especially after it's been improved with UI 2.0) and there will be another layer of coordination and people will be screaming to remove that because it's just "not fair". Just because (for whatever un-imaginable reason) you refuse to use voice comms, and play the game the way it was [arguably] intended to be played, doesn't mean the rest of us shouldn't and should be punished for doing so.

Edited by MechGorilla, 28 July 2013 - 12:21 PM.

[Boris The Spider]

Erghiez06, on 27 July 2013 - 04:17 PM, said:

I somehow imagined communication was necessary for teamwork. I must have missed the part of the tutorial that teaches telepathy.

There is your problem right there. Telepathy is not required for teamwork, just situational awareness. You were seriously suprised that 6 mechs with aproximatley the same weight, aproximatley the same loadout and aproximatley the same speed all started working together? Your problem is not premades..

There is no VOIP needed for mechs of the same class to stick together, that is just common bloody sense. There is no telepathy required to 'focus fire' you just watch for freindly getting hit, look at the direction of the fire, do some quick head maths and start raining fire on that b***h, tah! dah! Focus fire! And it doesnt require someone screaming "Help me!" over VOIP for someone to go back and see what is mollesting the missie boat, all that is required is teamwork and bit of situational awareness.

This is why you are having trouble, get on teamspeak, play as and when time allows and eventualy the nagging voices of 'Your out of possition' 'too many, pull back' 'Fire on my target' 'LRM's coming, retain lock' will no longer be needed prompts, you will start doing these things automaticaly and you will get a lot better at the game. When the game has ingame VOIP this will be a non issue.

** I just had a good look at that scoreboard, you had a founders LRM cat with an obscene amount of missiles on a mostly flat map, it was that last mech to die, but only got 134 dammage.... the enemy had no ECM, hells bells, were you even locking your targets?

Edited by Boris The Spider, 28 July 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Hellcat420]

No Guts No Glory, on 28 July 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Care to enlighten us all on how you know?

And I'll say this here too:

All PGI has to do is have MM force a similar number of grouped players onto each team with groups being indicated in the scoreboard. They can then remove group size restriction. Doesn't split the player base so no terrible queue times. Players can drop with any number of friends. There is no valid argument anyone can make against this.

because 4 of them are my clan mates.

[Adridos]

Hellcat420, on 28 July 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

because 4 of them are my clan mates.

Wait, wait, wait, wait.... 4 of those trash players on his team are actually Jade Falcons?



No offense, but it's just SOoooo ironic...

Edited by Adridos, 28 July 2013 - 12:59 PM.

[TexAce]

don't know if the other team was a premade but mine definately was NOT -.- weight balance is also great in this one

Edited by TexAss, 28 July 2013 - 01:31 PM.

[Keifomofutu]

No Guts No Glory, on 28 July 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Care to enlighten us all on how you know?

And I'll say this here too:

All PGI has to do is have MM force a similar number of grouped players onto each team with groups being indicated in the scoreboard. They can then remove group size restriction. Doesn't split the player base so no terrible queue times. Players can drop with any number of friends. There is no valid argument anyone can make against this.

This right here. Matches are by and large not balanced and end in steamrolls because the teamwork aspect of the match is mostly ignored by mm. To create balanced matches and close games you need to balance both teams. Not balancing a preset team of 4 against another one is basically a guarantee of a steamroll every time.

[Erghiez06]

Boris The Spider, on 28 July 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

There is your problem right there. Telepathy is not required for teamwork, just situational awareness. You were seriously suprised that 6 mechs with aproximatley the same weight, aproximatley the same loadout and aproximatley the same speed all started working together? Your problem is not premades..

There is no VOIP needed for mechs of the same class to stick together, that is just common bloody sense. There is no telepathy required to 'focus fire' you just watch for freindly getting hit, look at the direction of the fire, do some quick head maths and start raining fire on that b***h, tah! dah! Focus fire! And it doesnt require someone screaming "Help me!" over VOIP for someone to go back and see what is mollesting the missie boat, all that is required is teamwork and bit of situational awareness.

This is why you are having trouble, get on teamspeak, play as and when time allows and eventualy the nagging voices of 'Your out of possition' 'too many, pull back' 'Fire on my target' 'LRM's coming, retain lock' will no longer be needed prompts, you will start doing these things automaticaly and you will get a lot better at the game. When the game has ingame VOIP this will be a non issue.

** I just had a good look at that scoreboard, you had a founders LRM cat with an obscene amount of missiles on a mostly flat map, it was that last mech to die, but only got 134 dammage.... the enemy had no ECM, hells bells, were you even locking your targets?

As I've noted, I I typically stay close to the nearest Assault. I presume that maintaining a modicum of situational awareness is mandatory in that regard. I however cannot account for the rest of my team in any match I play in. Again I cannot speak for the rest of my team, but I assume locks were being made. I know I maintained locks for as long as I could. Its hard when 5 Jenners are 'jousting'. You can only maintain a lock for so long before they are outside of your peripheral thus losing your lock.

Part of the reason I believe we were decimated so fast and badly is because we had stuck together. Barring awareness we were fish in a barrel. While I agree VOIP isn't necessary to function as a team, it is nevertheless a highly useful tool that should be included as a default option. Resorting to Teamspeak just to have an edge demeans the point of building a game that emphasizes on teamwork.

The nature of Pugs is that it is at random. You don't know who you're going to get, or if they are going to be any good. I imagine I was a terrible player the first day I played and while I'd like to think I have improved, I still doubt I am a good player by any stretch of the imagination, but there are still plenty of newer players who walk into the game blindly. The training grounds can only take you so far before you have to branch out and seek skill building elsewhere.

One good player doesn't win a match. I stretch to think that even if our team was riddled with experienced players we would have still lost due to the imbalance. If we hadn't won by destroying the opposing team, they'd of capped our base long before we could have reached them.

Edit for double quoting

Edited by Erghiez06, 28 July 2013 - 01:41 PM.

[Damocles69]

get friends to play with?

[Erghiez06]

Damocles69, on 28 July 2013 - 01:44 PM, said:

get friends to play with?

I've invited a couple of friends in to play.They played a couple of matches with me but it wasn't up their alley.

[Nunspa]

Keifomofutu, on 27 July 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

That ship has sailed. Most of the premades pussed out on the real competition. They'd rather engage in easymode stomps against pugs in 4mans than face real competition in the 8-man queue.

and that has zero to do with the un-fun "oh look the entire other team is full of x2 ERPPC/+Guass jump snipers"...... games I have "enjoyed" in the past... hell even in BOTH game modes... I cant remember the last time I saw light mechs in a 8 man

[Keifomofutu]

Nunspa, on 28 July 2013 - 01:57 PM, said:

and that has zero to do with the un-fun "oh look the entire other team is full of x2 ERPPC/+Guass jump snipers"...... games I have "enjoyed" in the past... hell even in BOTH game modes... I cant remember the last time I saw light mechs in a 8 man

While you aren't wrong the 4-man groups seem much more likely to bring the flavour of the month as well. It seems like a situation where most groups don't want to face those weapons and setups, but have no qualms bringing the exact same weapons against disorganized pugs in frankenmechs. It's the classic "**** flows downhill" situation.

[Fulcrom Kerensky]

Keifomofutu, on 28 July 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

While you aren't wrong the 4-man groups seem much more likely to bring the flavour of the month as well. It seems like a situation where most groups don't want to face those weapons and setups, but have no qualms bringing the exact same weapons against disorganized pugs in frankenmechs. It's the classic "**** flows downhill" situation.

Could be just me but I always see 4 mans as a chance to use mechs I would not normally use. Such as the Blackjack and other mediums.