87 replies to this topic

[Royalewithcheese]

Koniving, on 28 July 2013 - 03:27 PM, said:

Tip: 4 flamers, 2 groups of 2, chainfire them. This keeps you from ever building up heat. You'll thank me later.

I'll have to try that out

The hilarious thing is that 2 flamers are heat-neutral because I had no idea what to put in my robot except more heatsinks. It also has BAP.

[jeffsw6]

NKAc Street, on 28 July 2013 - 02:37 PM, said:

Machine guns are a truly team based weapon and they have a specific use

Yes, Machine Guns are best used for trolling your team.

If you meant something else by team-based, then you are just wrong. A dedicated mech for running up to enemies whose armor is stripped by teammates, and shooting them to disable their weapons, is fantastically stupid.

[Sephlock]

He could have gotten an ammo explosion...

[BoPop]

machine guns are very situational based. I just got behind my team on Alpine (was too slow), a raven and spider got up on me. I spun so I could work on the raven cuz the spider was the MG variant. while I marched backward taking out the raven, the spider worked my back which the raven managed to open up quickly. but the raven was never able to get behind me again, however the spider stayed behind me unloading those machine guns on my back and killed me. I COULD NOT outmaneuver him.

[OneEyed Jack]

BoPop, on 28 July 2013 - 03:53 PM, said:

machine guns are very situational based. I just got behind my team on Alpine (was too slow), a raven and spider got up on me. I spun so I could work on the raven cuz the spider was the MG variant. while I marched backward taking out the raven, the spider worked my back which the raven managed to open up quickly. but the raven was never able to get behind me again, however the spider stayed behind me unloading those machine guns on my back and killed me. I COULD NOT outmaneuver him.

Just think what that Spider could have done if those MGs had been actual weapons. You also don't mention what the Spider may have had in the energy slot.

The situation you describe has nothing to do with MGs. It's just a highly mobile mech being allowed to shoot you in the back with impunity while you were kept busy by another target.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

Machine guns are fun. I have legged mechs with them. Whats really fun is going point blank against an atlas. Most don't unlock their arms so they can't hit my little raven. So i go up to the side opposite the cannon and pound away as they struggle to turn.

Even if they do not do much damage. They are the coolest sounding weapon ingame. And the psychological impact of the steady rain of pain is not to be dismissed.

[GMAK]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 28 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Even if they do not do much damage. They are the coolest sounding weapon ingame. And the psychological impact of the steady rain of pain is not to be dismissed.

Yea they are fun to use. I hope they will do more damage in a future patch.

You should have something to get the back of a big mech with the smaller mech.

[Koniving]

stjobe, on 28 July 2013 - 03:37 PM, said:

Sorry Koniving, but that's just the crit damage, it's been adjusted at the same time the per-projectile damage has been adjusted (it was at 12.5 times for all three types of crits when per-projectile damage was 0.04).

Single crit @ 1.25 damage, 25% + 11% = 36% chance.
Double crit @ 2.5 damage 14% + 6% = 20% chance
Triple crit @ 3 damage, 3% + 2% = 5% chance

Total chance to crit: 36% + 20% + 5% = 61% (they've actually lowered the bonus crit chances).

Unless you can find me a dev post explicitly stating that MGs do damage spikes to armour, I'm going to have to say you're wrong (sadly).

Question, where are you getting the 3+2, 14+6, and 25+11? Base chance on top of the increased chances?

I'll keep looking for it. I could have sworn it was in a command chair post or a patch note, but no luck on finding the actual breakdown so far. There is what smurfy says, but that says higher damage than what you've listed. It's supposed to be 2% chance for 3.75. Put your cursor over the Crosshair for MGs. Smurfy gets it directly from the game's XML files.



The key words though are "and additional damage" where it used to say "crit chance to components."
I'll try to find that dev post tomorrow in the meantime.

Does anyone know who actually does Smurfy? It'd be nice to just ask him or her what it says in the XML file.

Edited by Koniving, 28 July 2013 - 04:21 PM.

[Ecrof]

Machine guns need a buff but as some have said that the 6 machine gun jager could get mean so they might need a boating penalty but apart from that they need a large damage buff so the locust spider and cicada can all work as intended.

Edited by Ecrof, 28 July 2013 - 04:47 PM.

[Koniving]

OneEyed Jack, on 28 July 2013 - 03:33 PM, said:

Only because those people are to stupid to realize it's other weapons doing all the damage. Being hit by literally any other weapon in the game, except Flamers, would have more effect.


I call B.S.. To do that damage would require you to hold on target for nearly 3.5 minutes at a range of 90m or less (the range hadn't been bumped, yet) while your team apparently wasn't doing much of anything to distract your targets. Even allowing for sometimes hitting multiple mechs with the Flamers or the possibility that crit damage is being added to the total, I'm not buying it. Especially since there wouldn't have been all that much chance at crit damage with the poor amount of damage your team did (as in not many holes in the enemy armor).

Actually my team was on the other side of the map, and I was solo against one Atlas DDC and one Dragon. I kept that Dragon between me and the Atlas and the Atlas had two ER PPCs, a Gauss Rifle, and no missiles. The Dragon had a Gauss Rifle and 2 medium lasers, and kept using those Gauss rounds into his Atlas friend. Also, yes I spent a large amount of time fighting the two but with a JM6-S there are only 4 ballistic slots and 4 energy slots. My whole team was fighting along Epsilon's ridgeline in the typical sniper meta.

I had planned to run directly to their base when I found the Atlas and Dragon, and the fight was mostly up and down hill. It's very easy to keep a Jager on target. It is not so easy for an armlocked DDC to keep on target, and as mentioned I kept his Dragon buddy between me and the Atlas as much as I could. I had a 315 standard engine which had me going 86.4 kph, combine that with up and down hill combat around an Atlas with what was probably the typical Standard 300 (seemed average speed, slow even).

I was, indeed, the first to die. The rest began falling quite quickly afterward although everyone else was still alive when I fell. I said I had fun, and a person who won't be named complained about how poorly the team was doing. I told that person "I had 4 MGs and 4 flamers and I died first, if you do less damage than me you have no right to complain." Clearly I smiled after that.

Also I don't believe crit damage counts towards damage done. No, I never did get through the Atlas's armor although he was red in several sections. The Dragon's arm was gone (so + 20 for gauss rifle detonation) but a large part of that armor removal was from getting the Atlas to shoot the Dragon while 'passing through'.

Regardless of what you call, that's the damage I did 1 Jagermech 6S 4 MG, 4 flamer against 2 mechs, an Atlas 2 ER PPC + Gauss (he overheated several times) and a Dragon with Gauss and 2 ML (one shoulder mounted). Both were arm-locked on a battle on the two large mountains between Epsilon and Kappa. I'm quite proud of it.

You'll also do a lot more damage with MGs if you hold them on target. They hitscan like lasers (hence being upgraded in HSR with lasers), and travel instantly. The bullet light show is a particle effect that has no bearing in how the damage is registered. With flamers, I had no reason to point away from my target.

Now with the 0.8 damage per second MGs I did terrible, (used them with ER PPCs, leading targets, could see the light show and led the MGs to have the particle effects hit) until Prosperity Park told me how MGs really work.

[Mcgral18]

Using the 5K, I've had the most fun matches in the game. 4 Mgs and 3 tons of ammo will get you lots of fun, plus your choice of laser.

With a MPL and 4 MGs, I normally got 300-400 damage, with the odd 573 damage round. Will you do as well with a build that has missiles and PPCs? No, of course not. What you need to do is get through the armor (rear if possible) and use the MG's bonus, and watch their weapons turn red. If you need to wait for your allies to punch through that armor, wait, then charge in and take those weapons out. They'll appreciate not being shot at.

But, 2 MGs will not do very much, unless you have extra tonnage and slots. Then it might be worth while to take, if your other weapons can get through the armor.

[jeffsw6]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 28 July 2013 - 04:00 PM, said:

Machine guns are fun. I have legged mechs with them.

I doubt that.

Drop into a game with a friend (since Testing Grounds is broken) and blast away at his legs to test. You'll find that the 2 MGs a Raven can carry take a lot longer than you realize to burn through just 40 armor. Why? First of all, obviously your two MGs are only doing about 1.4 DPS combined (because the MG's RoF isn't really 10/sec; it's been bugged forever.) Second a lot of your shots will miss a leg, even an Atlas's leg.

Now try legging a Commando or Spider with MGs. Let me know how that goes.

[Blackadder]

just buy a spider and abuse hit detection while killing stalkers, saw that in a match earlier today, 1 SL 4x MG build was to funny

[Qrbaza]

I find 86kph, 6x MG , 2x ERPPC JagerMech rather efficient against lights. It chase every light away since they have more to loose than to gain from harrasing you. So it makes perfect defence against them. I mainly use it to have fun/or protecting assaults from being pecked to death by lights. So yes 2xmg is worthless but 6 of them gives quite a fun factor for me.

[No Guts No Glory]

I just stick 3 on my founders Hunchy with a couple Large Lasers and make it a point to get the killing shot on mechs with the machine guns.

[TexAce]

4MGs can be very effective against locations where armor is already gone.
Use 1PPC/LL +4MGs on the cicada (or spider) or 2PPCs and 6MGs in a Jägermech and see that it indeed is viable.
It destroys weapons really quick. With this mechs you are no frontier anyway so team up and attack from the back and pick the locations where you can actually do something.

MGs are fine at the moment

[stjobe]

Koniving, on 28 July 2013 - 04:21 PM, said:

Question, where are you getting the 3+2, 14+6, and 25+11? Base chance on top of the increased chances?

Smurfy only lists the increase in crit chance, not the base chance every weapon in MWO has, which is a 25% + 14% + 3% (42%) chance to crit exposed hit locations.

The MG adds 11% to the chance to crit once, 6% to the chance to crit twice, and 2% to the chance to triple crit, for a total of 61% chance to crit exposed hit locations.

Incidentally, the Flamer and LB-10X adds 14% to the chance to crit once, 8% to the chance to crit twice, and 3% to the chance to triple crit, for a total of 67% chance to crit exposed hit locations.

[Monlex]

After i saw this post i decided the next mech is going to be a JM6-DD, now i can tell you its not useless, its a blast.

Edited by Monlex, 29 July 2013 - 07:19 AM.

[Rawyn]

The "Mifune" Jäger is also one of my favorites. And 4 MGs are nice to tickle those internals once your ACs have shredded the armor.




*ratatatataatatatatattttattatatatatatatatatatttaaa* *blam* *ratatatatatatatatatatatatatata*

[Amsro]

soarra, on 28 July 2013 - 02:19 PM, said:

The Machine Gun is the quintessential anti-infantry weapon, issuing a stream of bullets at a high rate of fire to cut down opposing soldiers, while still being effective at damaging BattleMechs. Vehicular-scale machine guns mounted onBattleMechs can lay low entire platoons in just a few passes thanks to their high rate of fire, though they are more commonly found on Combat Vehicles andProtoMechs.^[3] These weapons are much heavier than those typically carried by infantry, but can be used by them when placed on a static mount, where they are called Support Machine Guns.^[4] Battle Armor can also carry machine guns, typically upgraded versions of infantry-support weapons, which can rival their larger vehicular-scale cousins.^[5]

Beyond the "standard" models Clan Smoke Jaguar was the first to create Light Machine Guns and Heavy Machine Guns, which the other Clans and the Inner Sphere eventually fielded as well. The Federated Suns were also the first to mount multiple machine guns on the same linked platform creating the Machine Gun Array.^[3]

Stop posting this garbage as an argument to why they suck, anti-infantry is just a bonus perk, they still are effective against battle mechs... or they should be.