87 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

General Taskeen, on 29 July 2013 - 02:38 PM, said:

The fallacy of the MG is in how it was programmed.

The MG is supposed to be a small laser equivalent in ballistic form, with almost similar range and damage profile.

The MW3 MG was the perfect iteration of the Battletech "Machine Gun" and anybody that says otherwise were probably mad because they got killed from a game where excessive customization and boating existed, more so than MW4 or MWO.

Here is what 2 MG's are supposed to do in Battle Tech

No sir. That is far to powerful! That was a 55 Ton Mech IIRC. The effect of 2 turns worth of fire should not destroy that much armor.

remember in BattleTech that was 2 turns of fire or 12 points of damage. Which should have maybe stripped the Mechs armor... maybe. Pluss that was using a Targeting Computer!

Correction 45 Clan Omni with 18 points of armor in its legs or 36 for MWO!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 July 2013 - 03:23 PM.

[jeffsw6]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 03:04 PM, said:

If it is equal to an SRM2 in damage, then it is almost ready to be called perfectly balanced.

I'm not sure I agree. SRM2 is not continuous-fire and it has greater effective range than MG. Granted, SRM2 weighs more.

I think it is hard to know how much DPS a Machine Gun should have until it is more widely-used; and maybe not until it is actually O/P and requiring a nerf. I don't think it's even close to good right now, so it has a long way to go before there is O/P danger.

I think it should be buffed over-and-over until it needs to be nerfed. That's the right process.

[Joseph Mallan]

jeffsw6, on 29 July 2013 - 05:42 PM, said:

I'm not sure I agree. SRM2 is not continuous-fire and it has greater effective range than MG. Granted, SRM2 weighs more.

I think it is hard to know how much DPS a Machine Gun should have until it is more widely-used; and maybe not until it is actually O/P and requiring a nerf. I don't think it's even close to good right now, so it has a long way to go before there is O/P danger.

I think it should be buffed over-and-over until it needs to be nerfed. That's the right process.

Machine guns shouldn't be either. The longer a MG fires the more damage the barrel takes. MWO Machine Guns needs bursts of fire that do about the same damage of a Small Laser to be "balanced".

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 29 July 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Rippthrough]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 02:31 PM, said:

Then MGs are doing just fine. What are we asking a 0.5 ton weapon to be? Dangerous?They are filler guns not to be counted on unless boated.

It's not 0.5tons though is it?
Add ammo and it's 1.5t, with the potential for an ammo explosion.
A small laser is still 0.5t on the mechs it matters on (lights), because of the archaic '10 heatsinks minimum' rule. 20 base heat dissipation is enough to keep them in check, even running 6 of them.

And half the range. Half the range is massive, which is why no-one takes pulse lasers. Range is this game = area of denial/engagement, and as that squares with the radius, a weapon with twice the range is generally 4 times as effective....
Hence the general disdain for pulses and small lasers.

Edited by Rippthrough, 29 July 2013 - 05:50 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

2xMG are standard issue on my BJ-1 variants, but I gotta tell you when I had them on a Cicada was alot of fun they look sweet when you have 4x of the little buggers firing from either side of your cockpit.

For fun: Iv fired Machine guns 68,696 times, hitting 48.35% of the time doing 2,993 total damage.

[Joseph Mallan]

Rippthrough, on 29 July 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

It's not 0.5tons though is it?
Add ammo and it's 1.5t, with the potential for an ammo explosion.

And half the range. Half the range is massive, which is why no-one takes pulse lasers. Range is this game = area of denial/engagement, and as that squares with the radius, a weapon with twice the range is generally 4 times as effective....
Hence the general disdain for pulses and small lasers.

It's a half ton weapon. Add ammo it is a Streak 2 big whoop are people scared of ONE SRM2? Still not a heavy damage weapon. Keep it in bursts equal to a Small Laser/SRM2 damage for balance.

[jeffsw6]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 05:46 PM, said:

Machine guns shouldn't be either. The longer a MG fires the more damage the barrel takes. MWO Machine Guns needs bursts of fire that do about the same damage of a Small Laser to be "balanced".

If you want the MG to be changed from continuous-fire to burst then you should start a thread making that argument. Maybe get a cool sig like FupDup and TeamLeader? I would not object to MG having a burst mechanic.

I don't think the gun barrel argument is the best way to convince people. It's futuristic giant robots that have lost the necessary science to construct rear-view camera or a scope, but they have fusion power. The gun barrel heating is just lost on me. If it makes for better game-play, though, I am all for your idea.

[Joseph Mallan]

Point is no other weapon fires that way and it is the whole reason they are making a MG as dumb as they have. As weapons go it needs to have a bust that does X amount of damage and a cool down as every other weapon in the game has.

[Carrioncrows]

Increase the damage.

Dmg: 0.2 dmg a round ( 2 dps at 90m and only 1 dps at 90m-200m)
ROF: 10 rounds a sec.
Ammo: 200 rounds for a 1/2 ton and 400 rounds for a full ton.

The higher DPS is mitigated by the more intensive ammo usage.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Point is no other weapon fires that way and it is the whole reason they are making a MG as dumb as they have. As weapons go it needs to have a bust that does X amount of damage and a cool down as every other weapon in the game has.

They could also make the cones of fire equal between the MG and other weapons, E.G. get rid of it on the MG or apply it to everything else.

It's bad enough you have to be facing the target 100% of the time, it also doesn't even hit where you aim (like every other ballistic, and all the energy weapons manage).

Edited by One Medic Army, 29 July 2013 - 06:20 PM.

[Hex Pallett]

My Quad-MG Spider, paired with an LL and lots of JJs, can do 300-500 damage every match.

MGs are useless? Hell no.

[Joseph Mallan]

Helmstif, on 29 July 2013 - 06:23 PM, said:

My Quad-MG Spider, paired with an LL and lots of JJs, can do 300-500 damage every match.

MGs are useless? Hell no.

Do that with out the LL... Then tell us that!

[Thorqemada]

The funny thing is that the MG counts for 5 dmg in the Mechlab...

If you have space and tons to waste the MG is a nice fluff item though it may see future abuse by Boaters.

Edited by Thorqemada, 29 July 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[One Medic Army]

Joseph Mallan, on 29 July 2013 - 06:25 PM, said:

Do that with out the LL... Then tell us that!

I saw CMDRShepard in a spider last night (other team), 4MGs and a flamer.
The funny part is he was the only person on his team to score a kill that match.

[Joseph Mallan]

One Medic Army, on 29 July 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

I saw CMDRShepard in a spider last night (other team), 4MGs and a flamer.
The funny part is he was the only person on his team to score a kill that match.

That is awesome!

[Monlex]

I dont understand why many want MG's to be as strong as xy. They are unique in as they can crit about anything in a section that has lost its armor. I use four atm in the jaeger i mentioned in this thread, i would say it takes approximately two seconds to crit a section without armor, that is fast. And with the ammo its 4 tons for this neat little utility piece, that generates practicly no heat.

[One Medic Army]

Monlex, on 29 July 2013 - 07:19 PM, said:

I dont understand why many want MG's to be as strong as xy. They are unique in as they can crit about anything in a section that has lost its armor. I use four atm in the jaeger i mentioned in this thread, i would say it takes approximately two seconds to crit a section without armor, that is fast. And with the ammo its 4 tons for this neat little utility piece, that generates practicly no heat.

Because they want there to be a viable ballistic weapon for killing mechs that weighs less than 6tons.
I'd be fine with MGs being solely crit-seekers, if we had a 1-2 ton ballistic which was a normal weapon used for killing mechs.

Right now, I look at the 3 ballistic slots on the shadow hawk H, and all I see is 3 MGs (which I wish we're 3 medium or small lasers instead) or sink all of my tonnage into only 1-2 larger ballistics. The next viable loadout is 9tons for a single UAC, and then 12tons for a pair of AC2s.

The flamer can be a crit-seeker because people have the option of using 4 other energy weapons with about the same tonnage. MGs are the only option for a ballistic weapon weighing less than 6tons.

Edited by One Medic Army, 29 July 2013 - 08:19 PM.

[Monlex]

Wait 18 years and you get the Light Autocannon (LAC/2, LAC/5), be patiant ppl.

[Craeshen]

flamers just generate too much heat on the firing mech to be any good. If they added heat to the recieving mech they'd be decent weapons for lights to run around with shutting down ppc boats and the like. But as it is they just add to much heat to the firing mech to be worth it.

[One Medic Army]

Monlex, on 29 July 2013 - 08:26 PM, said:

Wait 18 years and you get the Light Autocannon (LAC/2, LAC/5), be patiant ppl.

Then maybe PGI can leave Flamers as the "crit-seeker" and make MGs as good vs mechs as they were in TT.

In TT it had the same dmg/ton (of weapon) as an SRM launcher, and 4MGs were equivalent to an SRM4, but with less range, more ammo, and no heat.

Honestly, in MWO they should be even better, since they make up a hardpoint for each MG, equivalent to an SRM1.
My personal hope is we get to see MG arrays ahead of schedule, so at least we can pack more into each hardpoint.

Edited by One Medic Army, 30 July 2013 - 12:52 AM.