53 replies to this topic

[Charons Little Helper]

Hey - I'm planning to start playing a fast heavy hit and run mech - and I'm deciding which one to buy. Can anyone go through to pros and cons of each.

I know that they can both go the same speed. The dragon is a bit shorter - but the quickdraw has jump-jets and an extra hardpoint. Can I get some others to weigh in?

Edited by Charons Little Helper, 28 July 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Darwins Dog]

The dragon is the only one that can take ballistics. LBX can be fun or UAC5. Both are good for hit and run builds. Gauss is nice is you want to have more range. Only the Flame can use an AC20 (and only with no XL engine equipped), but any other ballistics will work. Most of the variants only have one missile hardpoint which means only one SRM launcher (which is another great weapon system for hit and run builds).

Quickdraws are better suited for energy builds, so they run hotter. This is not necessarily a big hindrance as you can fire a few volleys and then run for cover. They also have slightly better missile hardpoints (one of them has 3) so they can pack a big punch with those as well. Jump jets are nice, but they are rather heavy (1 ton each) so you will trade weapons or heatsinks for them.

Of the two I would say that the QD is better for hit and run attacks. Find an enemy, unload as much as you can, then use your speed and jets to get away and cool off. The Dragon is better suited for mid range fire support.

[maxdest]

I play 60 tonners a lot.

Dragon:
+ Can mount balistics for better heat efficiancy
+ Has one of the best arm swings of any mech
+ Has smaller sized side torsos that make an XL safer
- Has a large CT which can be hit from most angles by a decent shot
- Has non symetrical hard points

Quickdraw:
+ Can mount jump jets
+ Good mix of energy & missile hardpoints
? Has large side torsos making mounting an XL dangerous, but helps spread damage if you twist.
- Larger profile.

Both of these mechs thrive off manuvrability, and the jets just help emphasise this for the quickdraw. Also, the balistics of the dragon are hard to use without gimping your energy weapon, and with the exception of the flame hero mech, the mixed torso/arm hardpoints of different types make effective builds somewhat harder to use well.

Edited by maxdest, 28 July 2013 - 03:44 PM.

[Thunder Lips Express]

thats some good advice darwin and max. i have mechs of both chasis that i havn't played much yet, but they are next once i suffer my way thru the awesomes

[Ryokens leap]

To add to Maxdests post- dragon has great armor value, climbs like a medium, 3 module slots when mastered, and never gets head shot.

[Bluecricket]

Quickdraws and Dragons have identical speed caps and armor. The Dragon's slightly superior climbing ability is moot due to the Quickdraw's jumpjets, and both have 3 Module slots when mastered across every single variant.

Quickdraws make both better brawlers and snipers (although QKDs are strictly worse snipers than, say, CTF 3Ds or HGN 732s), due to their superior shape, hardpoints, and jumpjets. Quickdraws are marginally taller, but Dragons are incredibly wide and their CT Snout attracts fire faster than anything in the game.

I've mastered 3 variants of both the Dragon and Quickdraw (and I even own a Flame ) and there's just no reason to drop in a Dragon other than to be a unique snowflakey gimmick or to challenge yourself.

For those dead-set on Dragons, keep in mind that the shoulder mount on the RT is quite tall and can be used for PPC or Gauss ridge-peeking/sniping. I'll confess that's one thing that the Dragon does well compared to the Quickdraw.

Edited by Bluecricket, 28 July 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Dragons have that massive CT which causes them alot of grief but at the same time its basically the only target on the mech anyone ever bothers aiming for, its rare to see a dragon that has lost its combat abilities. Quickdraws are stupid large overall, hitting a quickdraw thats doing 100kph at 800km is sickeningly easy though they do soak damage pretty well due to the fairly evenly set up hit boxes.

Both mechs have fairly low slung weapons on the arms making it difficult to fire over without hampering their weaponfire (though both have weapons on the side torsos that easily clear most hills you can see over). I would put the quickdraw ahead of the dragon even though for the most part the QKD is a heavy with the firepower and mobility of a medium but the figure of a assault, not to mention its jump jets weigh a hefty one ton each.

Quickdraws also have terrible missile ports limiting their ability to effectively mount large amounts of LRMs though they can still do supression fire just fine. The 5K variant is pretty mean, it drops the LT missile slot for more energy points and a 305 Standard with 6 medium lasers is a pretty solid and simple build for it. (I literally won like 12 of the first 14 games I played when I got the 5K) Sadly as the mech lost its 'new edge' feel people began actively targeting them as if they were ac40 jags forcing most QKD players to use hit and run tactics, though with the new wave of brawlers abound it can fit right in beside other brawlers.

Personally speaking i'll probably sell my final QKD when the next heavy comes along, thunderbolts are kinda sexy though I would much prefer Orion.

[Grimmnyr]

Dragon loses.

[maxdest]

The only extra thing I would add is that the flame hero does have a couple of things going for it that 'normal' dragons or quickdraws don't.
- Able to fit an AC20 (not that this is nessasarly a good idea)
- Four arm mounted energy slots ,which makes aiming very easy - probably the easiest mech to hit enemy lights with ppcs from.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Dragon. But only use the reg mechs to get speed tweak. After that run the Flame with a gauss, 4 medium lasers, big xl, ams, full armor except a few points off legs. Like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e25cfc187709c3d
OR with a standard engine and ac20 to be an effective brawler. Like this: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...e25cfc187709c3d OR more heat efficient and slower: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...3f88d83013684cd (better version though the speed is nice.

[Dracol]

With the easy to hit CT, I find Dragons to be a liability for quick hit and run mechs. My play style though prefers the Dragon with Gauss, erll, and a lrm10. I use its speed to make me hard to hit at the 700 to 900 meter range as well as to maintain that range. The arms are quick and easy to target enemies with while on the move. The lmr10 allows me to pour damage into whatever the front line is targeting even if I do not have line of sight.

Edited by Dracol, 28 July 2013 - 07:53 PM.

[Tharkan Stuermer]

maxdest, on 28 July 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

I play 60 tonners a lot.

Dragon:
+ Can mount balistics for better heat efficiancy
+ Has one of the best arm swings of any mech
+ Has smaller sized side torsos that make an XL safer
- Has a large CT which can be hit from most angles by a decent shot
- Has non symetrical hard points

Quickdraw:
+ Can mount jump jets
+ Good mix of energy & missile hardpoints
? Has large side torsos making mounting an XL dangerous, but helps spread damage if you twist.
- Larger profile.

Both of these mechs thrive off manuvrability, and the jets just help emphasise this for the quickdraw. Also, the balistics of the dragon are hard to use without gimping your energy weapon, and with the exception of the flame hero mech, the mixed torso/arm hardpoints of different types make effective builds somewhat harder to use well.

The QKGs side torsi are quite small, and are protected by its very big arms. In fact, I rarely lost any of my Quickdraws due to the loss of a side torsi, and I play them with a 360 XL exclusively. In addition, you're also ignoring, that the hitboxes for the Dragon's side torso run down its nose pretty far, and that they get lots of damage, if the DRG is being shot at from the sides. Consequently, DRGs die far more often with one of the side torsi gone. The Dragon may also have a smaller front profile, but his profile is far bigger from the sides.
In addition, most Dragons have their main armament located in the arms, especially the 5N. Thus, its weapons have pretty low firing positions, and you have usually to move out of cover to shoot an enemy. The arms are also pretty easy to hit, which make the DRG prone to loose its main weaponry. The QKG doesn't have those drawbacks, since you can mount its main armament in relatively high firing positions in its side torsi.
In summary, I think that the QKG is superior to the DRG in almost any way. In fact, the only reason, why I should possibly use a Dragon instead of a Quickdraw is the DRG's ballistic slots. However, the QKG-4G and 4H can make a better use of their missile and energy slots.

However, if I want to use a ballistic weapon, I'd prefer my TBT-7K over any DRG any time.

Edited by Tharkan Stuermer, 28 July 2013 - 08:40 PM.

[BR0WN_H0RN3T]

Dragon's are jacks of all trades. Don't try to make a brawler (seriously, don't even try) but they are excellent hit n run mechs with the right loadout. When I think hit n run I think Dragon! Overall, I'd say they require a lot of discipline to use because they don't excel at any particular role and despite there being 5 variants they are really very similar. If you get into a brawl, you'd better win quickly or run. With HSR the way it currently is the dragon is suffering atm.

[Modo44]

Get a Dragon. The Quickdraw looks better on paper, but it is actually easier to kill because of its enormous size, and it always runs too hot because of no ballistics slots.

[Bluecricket]

Modo44, on 28 July 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

Get a Dragon. The Quickdraw looks better on paper, but it is actually easier to kill because of its enormous size, and it always runs too hot because of no ballistics slots.

I strongly disagree. The Quickdraw's size is not nearly as much of an issue as these forums make it out to be; Dragons have a much shorter life expectancy due to its ridiculous CT shape and size, lacks jumpjets, and has poor hardpoints/hardpoint configurations. If you're having trouble with heat, that's the fault of the person who configured the fit, not the chassis itself.

[Modo44]

Top the zero heat of a Gauss rifle, then we'll talk.

[Orzorn]

Modo44, on 28 July 2013 - 08:40 PM, said:

Get a Dragon. The Quickdraw looks better on paper, but it is actually easier to kill because of its enormous size, and it always runs too hot because of no ballistics slots.

This 100%.

The Quickdraw is just absolutely an easier to kill mech.

Coupled with the fact that the Dragon 1C has higher mounted energy hardpoints, and the Dragon is a superior mid-range and long-range platform.

Dragon, despite its CT, is going to last WAY longer than the much-too-tall Quickdraw. It really isn't the Quickdraw's fault that its scale is stupidly huge. Blame PGI for making it the size of a Victor.

Additionally, people tout the CT of the Dragon as bad? Take a look at the Quickdraw's head. The majority, except the ferro-glass, counts as CT, making the Quickdraw a huge vertical CT just waiting to get "head" sniped.

At least the Dragon can hide its CT behind hills while it uses its top-most energy point to snipe. I can confirm that the only visible parts of the Dragon when doing this are the tip-tops of its shoulders and the top of its cockpit.

Edited by Orzorn, 29 July 2013 - 08:52 AM.

[Redshift2k5]

My favorite Quickdraw is 2 medium laser and two ERPPCs, 325 XL and a pair of jumpjets. Hit and run, use the 96 KPH speed to be where you need to be and to bug out when you need to fall back.

[Bluecricket]

Look, I'm the proud owner of a set of Dragons (including the Flame) and have had some good runs with them, too--but they're bad mechs with bad hardpoints and bad hitboxes. These are unfortunate facts, and regardless of what you choose to believe, it's still true.

Quickdraws aren't exactly "optimal" either, but if we're strictly comparing the two together, there's simply no contest. Quickdraws obsolete Dragons by virtue of better shape, potential firepower, and jumpjet maneuverability. Perhaps if non-Gauss or AC20 ballistics ever become worth using in a serious build, this may change.

I'll concede that the tall shoulder hardpoint on the Dragons are pretty neat, but if you're intent on playing a hill-humping sniper, why did you bring a Dragon? Cataphract 3Ds, Jagermechs, or even Quickdraws play that role more effectively. Play a Dragon if you want to handicap yourself or be "different". Play anything else if you want to be successful.

Edited by Bluecricket, 29 July 2013 - 09:23 AM.

[Tharkan Stuermer]

Bluecricket, on 29 July 2013 - 09:17 AM, said:

Look, I'm the proud owner of a set of Dragons (including the Flame) and have had some good runs with them, too--but they're bad mechs with bad hardpoints and bad hitboxes. These are unfortunate facts, and regardless of what you choose to believe, it's still true.

Quickdraws aren't exactly "optimal" either, but if we're strictly comparing the two together, there's simply no contest. Quickdraws obsolete Dragons by virtue of better shape, potential firepower, and jumpjet maneuverability. Perhaps if non-Gauss or AC20 ballistics ever become worth using in a serious build, this may change.

I'll concede that the tall shoulder hardpoint on the Dragons are pretty neat, but if you're intent on playing a hill-humping sniper, why did you bring a Dragon? Cataphract 3Ds, Jagermechs, or even Quickdraws play that role more effectively. Play a Dragon if you want to handicap yourself or be "different". Play anything else if you want to be successful.

I totally agree. If I am piloting my QKG, I usually consider a Dragon an easy kill.
If you want to play hit-and-run tactics, the TBT-7K is superior to the Dragon, too. It can equip an XL-engine, mount an AC/20, or an Gauss, but it doesn't loose its main armament as fast as the Dragon. It weapons are also mounted in a higher position, you don't have to leave your cover as far as most Dragon variants. In addition, you're far more agile.