44 replies to this topic

[Gunivar]

Been getting back into this game, and one glaring thing I notice as a Medium pilot is that there is barely any Medium mechs used. Usually any other Mediums I see are designed for being a fast sniper.
Here is some reasons why I think Mediums are doing badly:
1. Abundance of Heavies and Assaults. Without any system ensuring only a certain amounts of heavier Mechs can be used, any Medium pilot can be forced to fight against almost whole teams of Assaults and Heavies.
Mediums are meant to be the primary force of the team, not the minor support.
2. Slow Rotation Speed
For supposedly being more agile than Heavies, the rotation speed can be rather pathetic, making it hard to use despite sacrificing the armor of Heavies.
3. Fire Power of Lights
Light Mechs can sport firepower that rivals many Medium Mechs that aren't sacrificing performance for more firepower. Combined with being faster, a skilled team of Lights can become far more valuable than a skilled team of Mediums.
4. Dead Too quickly.
Mediums lack the speed to avoid many heavier attacks, and do not have the armor to withstand them directly. While Heavy and Assault mechs can withstand a barrage of missiles without suffering too much, Mediums are just not fast enough to avoid missiles if they are not in a convient place at all times (thus the game ends up being even more like Peeka Boo). Combine this with all the PPC Stalkers...

TL DR: Not enough of a clear firepower edge to justify being slower than Lights, not enough speed to justify being squishier than Heavies.

Edited by Gunivar, 28 July 2013 - 07:30 PM.

[POOTYTANGASAUR]

Stuff in a standard 260 engine in all your mediums. Great speed, lots of space for weapons. I have no issues taking down an assault or heavy in my hunchback 4p, cent-9al, wang, hunch 4j, treb 7k, treb 7m, cent-9a. You just need to understand how to pilot the mech. Don't blame your short comings on the chassis or weight class. I often have high damage and high kill games in all my mediums. Mind you i play all mechs but lights (i suck at lights, they don't suck but they aren't my playstyle). I am on my laptop so i can't upload any pics but if you whine enough to remind me i surely will come back and post sometime this upcoming week. (My mother just passed so I am at her place getting all the ducks in a line ya know?)

[Delas Ting Usee]

Nice breakdown of the problems facing Mediums.

[Delas Ting Usee]

POOTYTANGASAUR, on 28 July 2013 - 07:31 PM, said:

Stuff in a standard 260 engine in all your mediums. Great speed, lots of space for weapons. I have no issues taking down an assault or heavy in my hunchback 4p, cent-9al, wang, hunch 4j, treb 7k, treb 7m, cent-9a. You just need to understand how to pilot the mech. Don't blame your short comings on the chassis or weight class. I often have high damage and high kill games in all my mediums. Mind you i play all mechs but lights (i suck at lights, they don't suck but they aren't my playstyle). I am on my laptop so i can't upload any pics but if you whine enough to remind me i surely will come back and post sometime this upcoming week. (My mother just passed so I am at her place getting all the ducks in a line ya know?)

My condolences on the passing of your mother.
If you are able to do what you so claim in a medium chassis then surely there must be others like you.
BUT, OP is right in one regard - you hardly see mediums being fielded - why is that?
Also, please cut the snark - doesn't help.

Edited by Delas Ting Usee, 28 July 2013 - 07:37 PM.

[Crazycajun]

i see mediums all the time... 2-3 in every match today...

what game are you playing?

[Hotthedd]

Why take a medium when you can take an assault?

There is no tonnage limit on drops, so there is no reason to take a medium mech.

[jakucha]

Hotthedd, on 28 July 2013 - 07:53 PM, said:

Why take a medium when you can take an assault?

There is no tonnage limit on drops, so there is no reason to take a medium mech.

Yep, this is the largest reason. Players will never self-regulate, so the game will have to force it in the form of team tonnage restrictions.

[TB Freelancer]

jakucha, on 28 July 2013 - 07:59 PM, said:

Yep, this is the largest reason. Players will never self-regulate, so the game will have to force it in the form of team tonnage restrictions.

PGI is going to impose min/max weight restrictions, at least that's the idea they're toying around with. Though I think once they realize that simple weight restrictions are a in ill thought out fix, they'll be forced back to the drawing board.

A much better system would add a few simple rules, and potential scoring penalties for deviating from one of each weight class. Lances would have to decide whether they want to earn rewards or potentially win more often at reduced earnings.

1. No more than two of a weight class for a 4 man. No more than 1 of a weight class for a 2 or 3 man.
- IF you take 2 of one weight class, you have to take the next two lightest classes not taken i.e. take 2 assaults and you take a light and medium, or take 2 mediums and you have to take a light and a heavy.
2. No more than one of a chassis, and I mean chassis, not variant.

That's the rough idea, and it would completely eliminate 99% of the garbage we see match after match after match.

[Xeno Phalcon]

I can't speak for how other mediums perform as iv only really played the blackjack to any large extent, maybe ten to twelve matches using the various other mediums prior to that.

I do pretty well IMO (Not to toot my own horn) though I attribute that to luck, sticking to my team and exploiting stupid. (Like earlier I snuck around and just utterly drilled through a jagermech that wasnt paying attention to someone repeatedly shooting him in the rear armor.)

However there has been alot of devspeak about giving mediums and lights added incentives to be played, so we might see them growing in numbers in the future beyond the eccentric, elite or just plain crazy pilots.

[Khobai]

PGI doesnt need to add weight restrictions. They just need to equalize the weight classes. If all the weight classes are equal than players will play them equally. Its that simple.

To fix medium mechs they have to speed them up, they have to fix pinpoint alphas that murder mediums in two hits, and they have to give mediums a stronger role by bringing brawling back to the game.

Edited by Khobai, 28 July 2013 - 09:01 PM.

[Volomon]

Maybe they should just make hitting a light in the cockpit a bit more deadly. They seem to take quite a beating, beyond what I think they should. A few assaults from an alpha should crush a light but see so many of them survive.

Make each tier of mechs more resistant to cockpit damage. So that the advantage of having a medium is not to get instant killed, yet still have that relative speed.

[FupDup]

Volomon, on 28 July 2013 - 09:07 PM, said:

Maybe they should just make hitting a light in the cockpit a bit more deadly. They seem to take quite a beating, beyond what I think they should. A few assaults from an alpha should crush a light but see so many of them survive.

Make each tier of mechs more resistant to cockpit damage. So that the advantage of having a medium is not to get instant killed, yet still have that relative speed.

Headshots aren't exactly common on anything other than a Catapult, so adding more head armor capacity to larger mechs will only affect the Cat.

It's also a TT rule for head armor to be standardized across the board, and as such some people may get mad if you suggest changing it.

[WANTED]

Mediums are getting some love in a future patch they said. Like better agility and quirks, etc. But overall I play mediums and my best mech of all mechs is my Yen Lo Wang. I like the speed, agility and better armor of the medium mechs over my lights. Plus I see plenty of medium being fielded. The Centurions are the dark horses cause they can go zombie mode and take a beating. The enemy mechs usually get target fixation on cents while the assaults on the team annihilate them. So mediums are still useful just have to know how to use them and make your moves at right time.

[Skadi]

FupDup, on 28 July 2013 - 09:10 PM, said:

Headshots aren't exactly common on anything other than a Catapult, so adding more head armor capacity to larger mechs will only affect the Cat.

It's also a TT rule for head armor to be standardized across the board, and as such some people may get mad if you suggest changing it.

Don't always think that FupDup, a lot of people including myself make it a practice to aim for the head, especialy since we CT core if we miss. Its not common to hear in 4 or 8 man prac drops "callshot head" because some poor fool decided to sit still.

The lesson is, while a lot of those shots are luck, don't ever not expect it.

Edited by Skadi, 28 July 2013 - 09:13 PM.

[Glaive-]

Gunivar, on 28 July 2013 - 07:26 PM, said:

3. Fire Power of Lights
Light Mechs can sport firepower that rivals many Medium Mechs that aren't sacrificing performance for more firepower. Combined with being faster, a skilled team of Lights can become far more valuable than a skilled team of Mediums.

This is not true. It is very much possible to build a decently fast medium that also has more firepower then a light, though it can be very difficult to design such builds.

I do agree that mediums are sub-par at the moment, but some people make them seem much worse then they really are.

[Corbon Zackery]

I'm running a blackjack with 3 large lasers and 4 M.lasers.

Avg. weapon load for a atlas
4 M.lasers
SRM or LRM
some sort of autocannon.

You tell me who has the better weapon package.

On TT I would be doing:
24 damage with the Large lasers
20 damage with the Medium lasers.

So I seem to outclass a atlas weapon wise and I'm faster at about 72KPH.

I will take that any day over a slow walking coffin.

Get rid of arm lock and torso lock that's what's killing convergence right now.

When you can lock your torso and just mover your mouse around you can target any spot on a mech I should know in MechWarrior 3 I use to be the king of legging that way.

[KharnZor]

Comes down to the pilot in the end.

[Keifomofutu]

Corbon Zackery, on 28 July 2013 - 09:19 PM, said:

I'm running a blackjack with 3 large lasers and 4 M.lasers.

Avg. weapon load for a atlas
4 M.lasers
SRM or LRM
some sort of autocannon.

You tell me who has the better weapon package.

On TT I would be doing:
24 damage with the Large lasers
20 damage with the Medium lasers.

So I seem to outclass a atlas weapon wise and I'm faster at about 72KPH.

I will take that any day over a slow walking coffin.

Get rid of arm lock and torso lock that's what's killing convergence right now.

When you can lock your torso and just mover your mouse around you can target any spot on a mech I should know in MechWarrior 3 I use to be the king of legging that way.

A 72km/h medium IS a slow walking coffin.

[ego1607]

I suspect it's quite a hot coffin also.

Mediums are in a bad place at the moment. They can be fun to pilot, but are objectively inferior to everything. They said they will get a buff son, so we'll see...

[jakucha]

ego1607, on 28 July 2013 - 09:30 PM, said:

They said they will get a buff son, so we'll see...

That sentence might contain a typo, but I had to read it in a Texan dialect.