37 replies to this topic

[Robot Legs]

I hear a few people saying that if damage was somewhat randomized, it would remove skill..... I disagree. In the case of a person boating a nasty alpha, It would surely pay off less, getting a center torso shot, but IT GOES FOR BOTH TEAMS. Also I hate to burst any ones bubble, but IMO aiming your crosshair intently for long enough to alpha, is not super human skills. I kinda suck at MWO, but if I'm packin a huge alpha, I can aim at a center torso pretty well..... many computer games from the 1980s and 90s also used mouse..... the mouse has not changed. I think if a base 25% goes to hit area, and 75% is random, good players will still be good players. Just ALL players would live a bit longer, and alpha spammers would just get to spam more alphas. I think when people say it would remove skill, they are just people who enjoy the idea of one shotting players. The argument is just a self aggrandizing crap pile, for why they SHOULD be able one shot players. P.S. Before you rage, I don't take myself seriously, I just like the concept of medium mechs, and letting these pin point alphas work, makes a medium mech, a coffin. Sorry if I was kind of rude towards your opinion. PEACE.

[Screech]

Why folks don't like arbitrary randomness in a shooter:

If I throw a dart at a dart board, there is a fairly good chance I won't hit a bulls-eye. But if I practice enough and get good that can change.

If I throw some dice in a craps game, there is a fairly good chance I won't roll a 7. There is nothing I can really do about this.

Now if you want to talk about adding in variables to make aiming harder that is a different topic.

[Robot Legs]

I'm sorry, did you just equate throwing a dart, to aiming your mouse? If that was the case, I suppose I would be rank 1 dart champ of the world......... I was talking about people who pretend aiming a mouse is hard, and you just proved my point. Get over yourself, aiming a crosshair, is NOT HARD. Throwing a dart, is........ good lord.

[3rdworld]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm sorry, did you just equate throwing a dart, to aiming your mouse? If that was the case, I suppose I would be rank 1 dart champ of the world......... I was talking about people who pretend aiming a mouse is hard, and you just proved my point. Get over yourself, aiming a crosshair, is NOT HARD. Throwing a dart, is........ good lord.

Explain why there are good players and bad players. if apparently simple aiming is so easy.

[Royalewithcheese]

Random aiming mechanics work when they mesh well with other game elements. Random spread works for Battlefield, it doesn't work in Tribes.

[Robot Legs]

I think using a boat build does require skill, although you only need to aim a few times, 1 miss is a huge setback. I'm not saying boating is easy mode. I am saying that it takes no MORE skill than other play styles. If the damage was done more TT style (from what I've heard, not a TT player) People who pin point alpha folks to the chest consistently, would still be good players, and the CTs would get blown up sooner than later. If the damage was 100% random, then I would see your point. "who cares what part I hit?" But making the damage somewhat random, ............ I think makes for better play all around. Perhaps even a base of 50% with the other 50% random... would a guy like you be cool with that?

[DamnCatte]

I think part of the case here is that a bit of randomness in aiming isn't detrimental to aiming skill, just requiring a different skill. It would change the way gunplay goes from pinpoint accuracy, to more on the position of your 'mech compared to your enemy.

Frankly, I'd like to try both methods before determining which I would like more, but sometimes perfect aiming and convergence of weapons that shouldn't gets a little odd; I'd rather have convergence changed than aim accuracy.

[One Medic Army]

Randomization:
All results are possible, skill manipulates which are probable.

[Gulinborsti]

3rdworld, on 29 July 2013 - 02:49 PM, said:

Explain why there are good players and bad players. if apparently simple aiming is so easy.

Aim is not the only parameter that separates good from bad players. I will choose people with bad aim but common sense and battle awareness over people lacking the latter for my team any time.

[Joseph Mallan]

Screech, on 29 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

Why folks don't like arbitrary randomness in a shooter:

If I throw a dart at a dart board, there is a fairly good chance I won't hit a bulls-eye. But if I practice enough and get good that can change.

If I throw some dice in a craps game, there is a fairly good chance I won't roll a 7. There is nothing I can really do about this.

Now if you want to talk about adding in variables to make aiming harder that is a different topic.

As to your dart example... If I drink enough The Bull's Eye opens up I aimed weapons a lot, I would hit close to where I aimed, but I never hit the same exact spot 10 outs 10 times heck en 3 outta ten I never saw from the firing line. Specially at 500M.

[Roland]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm sorry, did you just equate throwing a dart, to aiming your mouse? If that was the case, I suppose I would be rank 1 dart champ of the world......... I was talking about people who pretend aiming a mouse is hard, and you just proved my point. Get over yourself, aiming a crosshair, is NOT HARD. Throwing a dart, is........ good lord.

Ya, lots of folks say this.

The reality is, you aren't good enough to land every shot you try to take. Regardless of whether or not it's just "moving a mouse".

If you can literally land 100% of the shots you try to take, and never miss, in any situation.. then that's great. You're the best mechwarrior playing now.

Back here in the REAL WORLD though, I've actually SEEN a bunch of these folks who claim that shooting is "just point and click" miss most of their shots. So apparently, "just moving the mouse" is a lot harder then one might think.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 29 July 2013 - 03:29 PM, said:

Ya, lots of folks say this.

The reality is, you aren't good enough to land every shot you try to take. Regardless of whether or not it's just "moving a mouse".

If you can literally land 100% of the shots you try to take, and never miss, in any situation.. then that's great. You're the best mechwarrior playing now.

Back here in the REAL WORLD though, I've actually SEEN a bunch of these folks who claim that shooting is "just point and click" miss most of their shots. So apparently, "just moving the mouse" is a lot harder then one might think.

No its not.

[Roland]

People should post up their 100% accuracy rates with every weapon from their stats, because I would be amused to see that.

[Joseph Mallan]

Roland, on 29 July 2013 - 03:31 PM, said:

People should post up their 100% accuracy rates with every weapon from their stats, because I would be amused to see that.

I didn't say I had 100% Accuracy I just said it is easier than actually shooting. Which you have to admit it is if you fired a weapon a few times.

[LauLiao]

Screech, on 29 July 2013 - 02:42 PM, said:

If I throw some dice in a craps game, there is a fairly good chance I won't roll a 7. There is nothing I can really do about this.

Why would you want to roll a 7 unless you were coming out?

[Devils Advocate]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 02:46 PM, said:

I'm sorry, did you just equate throwing a dart, to aiming your mouse? If that was the case, I suppose I would be rank 1 dart champ of the world......... I was talking about people who pretend aiming a mouse is hard, and you just proved my point. Get over yourself, aiming a crosshair, is NOT HARD. Throwing a dart, is........ good lord.

You're bad at trolling and you should leave. We have enough of them as it is there's no room for more.

[Robot Legs]

Oh and for the record, I'm an equal opportunity gamer. I myself spend half the time Boating/FOTM/CHeezindufuqout, anything for the lulz. The other half the time, I change personality, and try more unorthodox methods. (like daring to drop in a medium) So please don't think I am against anyone here. I just think there is an arrogance on one side of the argument for pin point accuracy.

[Barantor]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 04:04 PM, said:

Oh and for the record, I'm an equal opportunity gamer. I myself spend half the time Boating/FOTM/CHeezindufuqout, anything for the lulz. The other half the time, I change personality, and try more unorthodox methods. (like daring to drop in a medium) So please don't think I am against anyone here. I just think there is an arrogance on one side of the argument for pin point accuracy.

There will be arrogance anytime there is change, especially a massive change like a random hit mechanic. People like to win and any change takes time to adjust. Some folks are never able to adjust and either move on, rage and move on, or just keep on raging.

I would 100% rather have a good MWO that I completely sucked at than have to wait XX many years until another game with Battletech or Mechwarrior was made if MWO was to fail.

[Robot Legs]

Sorry guys, I just got a letter from the President. It says "We have recently become aware that you have top rank point and click skills, and require your services at the Whitehouse immediately." HOLY COW. I will post later, once I find out what this is all about!

[CeeKay Boques]

Robot Legs, on 29 July 2013 - 04:11 PM, said:

Sorry guys, I just got a letter from the President. It says "We have recently become aware that you have top rank point and click skills, and require your services at the Whitehouse immediately." HOLY COW. I will post later, once I find out what this is all about!

Drone piloting, obviously.