376 replies to this topic

[Corvus Antaka]

Patch looks great. Big things for sure, with the linkages the pinpoint meta is finally dead. I'm sure PGI will look at PPC/Gauss combos as needed, one thing at a time folks.

[Jabilo]

SirLagsalot, on 30 July 2013 - 08:18 AM, said:

Ok, I'm confused. This is not the same as the lumping PPCs together because the PPCs all share the same max alpha limit.
SRM6 max alpha limit is 3, SRM4 max alpha limit is 4. If I have 3x SRM4 and 1x SRM6 and alpha, do I incur the heat penalty or not?
They share the max alpha limit now, so does it count as me firing 4x SRM4 and no heat penalty or does it count as me firing 4x SRM6 and incurring the wrath of the heat gods?

This a thousand times this.

The table showing max alphas should be updated with new weapon link info ASAP with an explanation of the above.

If it was me I would have done this at the same time as releasing patch notes, but they seem to thrive on causing confusion and communicating badly.

Edited by Jabilo, 30 July 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Kill Dozer]

~Raise heat across the board so you have to fire less to manage your heat.
~Nerf weapons across the board via group heat penalties so you have to fire single weapons (which also run hotter than before) more often to do the previous amount of damage.
~introduce a new super hot map.
~Fuuuuu <rage face>

This whole heat scale thing is ridiculous, I am of the opinion that everything got a stealth heat buff. All of my mechs, which are mostly mixed weapon builds, started running much hotter after these shenanigans.

Fix convergence and damage distribution (ppcs/lrms/srms) and work from there. How you can take a game like Mechwarrior, which has 20+ years of back story and several successful PC games behind it (MW1/2/3/4/Mercs+expansions) and screw up something this simple is beyond me. Anyone remember MW4? Remember all of the boating complaints that people would make about that game? Yeah, me neither.

In MW2/3/4/Mercs weapons load out restrictions for any kind of league play were typically set as a condition of the match. i.e. all energy, mixed energy+projectile etc. That plus the map choice (and planetary heat or lack thereof) determined what the majority of builds you would be facing would take. Some mech's are designed to boat certain weapons, that has always been the case, if PGI doesn't want weapons boated why put out a stalker that can mount 6 PPC,s or or a Yeager that can mount dual AC20's? eta (I dont own a 6ppc stalker or ac20 yeager since they arent my style)

While I'm on the soapbox, while is that PGI markets this game as a team based Mechwarrior Simulator but most everything they do caters to the single player "first person shooter" gamer. No lobby, no match making options for teams, no map choice, tonnage restrictions, weapons loadout restrictions etc. We can't even save a mech config in the mechbay and this thing is going live soon?

I'm just flabbergasted that it has come to this.

Another spin on the Wheel of Development Doom I guess.

Edited by Kill Dozer, 30 July 2013 - 12:36 PM.

[Tsula]

NamesAreStupid, on 30 July 2013 - 11:40 AM, said:

And why wasn't it implemented today?

Do I have a Dev tag next to my name? No don't know just showing info that was asked.

[WaddeHaddeDudeda]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Patch looks great. Big things for sure, with the linkages the pinpoint meta is finally dead. I'm sure PGI will look at PPC/Gauss combos as needed, one thing at a time folks.

I REALLY hope that, after they've nerfed PPC + Gauss, AC 20 + SRMs are next.

/sarcasm

[Rippthrough]

I love these clear, intuitive heat systems.

[Sprouticus]

Suri Curume, on 30 July 2013 - 08:52 AM, said:

The way it would make the most sense to me is if it's set up with you only get the penalty after 3 launchers if there at least 3 SRM6s, otherwise, the penalty kicks in after 4 launchers.

To illustrate:

• 3x SRM6 = no penalty
  
• 4x SRM6 = penalty (using SRM6 bonus heat multiplier)
  
• 4x SRM4 = no penalty
  
• 5x SRM4 = penalty (using SRM4 bonus heat multiplier)
  
• 2x SRM4, 2x SRM6 = no penalty
  
• 3x SRM4, 2x SRM6 = penalty (using SRM6 bonus heat multiplier)

I think that your suggested setup of 3xSRM4 + 1xSRM6 shouldn't be penalized, since it's still under 4 launchers. The whole thing is ridiculously unintuitive.



Although, I could see them setting it up so that as soon as an SRM6 is involved at all, that the penalty applies after 3 launchers (in which case your 3xSRM4 + 1xSRM6 incurs a penalty). This would be a HUGE nerf to SRMs in general, and I really hope that is not the case.



I really don't want that to be true...

The only mechs really affected by this are the A1 and the stalker. Neither worries me much. Honestly

I am more bothered by the lack of explanation than the actual stats.


This is annoying but not game changing or non-sensical. The LL/ERLL/LPL @ 2 however....that makes no sense.

[Fishhawk]

Sprouticus, on 30 July 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

The only mechs really affected by this are the A1 and the stalker. Neither worries me much. Honestly
I am more bothered by the lack of explanation than the actual stats.

This is annoying but not game changing or non-sensical. The LL/ERLL/LPL @ 2 however....that makes no sense.

Agreed. However, as we have seen before, things change. My guess is they will eventually up the LL/ERLL/LPL to 3 or 4.

In order to balance a game it is about iteration. It amazes me that people think PGI can snap their collective fingers and the entire game will be perfectly balanced.

Edited by Fishhawk, 30 July 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Teufel Hunden 0351]

I guess I really don't understand the point to all of these ridiculous tweaks....LET PEOPLE BUILD THEIR MECHS HOW THEY WANT......isn't that the whole point of this. Why go through all the trouble to unlock all of your mechs for the bonuses or save up to buy the nice weapons and tweaks when you have to come up with builds based on all these changes.....Now before people say well it's not that bad think of this, Stalkers have only missle and laser hardpoints, Awesomes have only missles and lasers...ect. I would think that in order to apply proper tactics and use skill you would need to utilize the tools your team posseses such as a LRM boat, a sniper, brawlers ect. It makes no sense to me to give a sniper a short range weapon just like it doesn't make sense to give a brawler long range weapons and considering different mechs have different hardpoints with different restrictions and need to combine all energy and missles or w/e, these changes seem ridiculous. I'd say put things back the way they were and let people learn how to adapt and overcome. Build your mechs to suit your play style and learn to use your terrain and team to accomplish the mission rather than screw with everyone to stop certain builds.

To all of you out there also all upset about the 6 PPC or 2 AC 20 builds, think of this...to get 2 AC 20's on a build you have to sacrifice armor and other weapons and can only carry limited ammo and have to be up close and personal...for PPC builds you need to have good skill or lots of luck to hit someone far away and you have long cool down or you will overheat anyways.

[Jabilo]

Review:

"Understanding heat scale system by Dr Stephen Hawking"

Unlike Dr Hawkings seminal "A Brief History of Time" where he explains the fundamental working of the universe, he just does not seem to be able to come to grips with the Mechwarrior Online heat system.

[BigMekkUrDakka]

truly HUGE july how much till launch? :DDDDD

[xZaOx]

Colonel Pada Vinson, on 30 July 2013 - 11:46 AM, said:

Patch looks great. Big things for sure, with the linkages the pinpoint meta is finally dead. I'm sure PGI will look at PPC/Gauss combos as needed, one thing at a time folks.

Yes we don't want any sort of rock, paper, scissors. Nerf everything so it all have the same damage, but different colour, and just have every weapon chain fire. Yes we need death by a million paper cuts.

You keep running your table top 1mg, 1 small pulse, 1 medium laser, 1 SRM 4, 1 LRM 5, and AC 2 build.

[Neverther]

And client froze on first match, all normal folks, carry on.

Edit:
One match with one point of damage done, hit detection is OK!

Edited by Neverther, 30 July 2013 - 12:31 PM.

[Rippthrough]

This just in, 732 laughs at ER+PPC combine heatcap.

45 alphas are still here.

[Gallowglas]

I have to agree with what others have said (even if I don't always agree with the way they say it): If you're doing heat threshold mechanics, LL's need to be set at a minimum of 3. Those weapons were largely considered by the community to be the most balanced. Now that LPL's have been added to the mix and they're so hot as is, I think it's absolutely essential to raise the cap, albeit slightly.

[Nicholas Carlyle]

Rippthrough, on 30 July 2013 - 12:10 PM, said:

This just in, 732 laughs at ER+PPC combine heatcap.

45 alphas are still here.

I just don't get it...sure if you are having to brawl a bit, you might swap to 2 PPC/Gauss for a bit, but while you are 1000+m away sniping, who cares about extra heat?

Edited by Nicholas Carlyle, 30 July 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Skyfaller]

Quote

Weapon System Heat Penalty Linking

• ERPPCs and PPCs will now share their max alpha limit.
  
• LRM20, LRM15 and LRM10s now share their max alpha limit.
  
• LL, ERLL, LPL will now share their max alpha limit.
  
• SRM6 and SRM4 will now share their max alpha limit.

Linked weapons will always use the highest base heat value and highest multiplier of the weapons fired. e.g. if you launch LRM15s with LRM10s, it will use LRM15 numbers. If you fire Large Lasers with ER Large Lasers, it will use ER Large Laser numbers.

Sigh. Seriously devs? Why the heck do you keep making these incredibly stupid changes?

PPC and LL/ER LL yes it makes sense. LPL is NOT the same weapon as an LL. SRM 6 and LRM20 are NOT the same weapon as smaller missile launching versions. There is *NO* reason to link them in heat penalty because they are NOT THE SAME GDAMN WEAPON SYSTEM.

The changes to LRM effectively makes ANY lrm loadout USELESS. Congratulations.
SRM changes make SRM users fire it in chain fire.. which makes the damn thing useless compared to firing a medium laser instead. Congratulations.

This is an idiotic change. Go back, put some more work on it and at least have the DECENCY of making penalties that make sense.

Put heat penalties on LRMs if they fire more than 1 LRM20 or more than 2 LRM15s or more than 3 LRM10s or more than 4 LRM5s. But do NOT mix the LRM types. ******* it you dont do this crap for the cannon weapons and its the SAME thing.

SRMs are like small and medium lasers heat wise but more like autocannons aiming wise and do the damage of missiles. In short... there's no need to give them heat penalties. They already suffer the performance penalties of all those weapon systems.

Quote

Seismic Sensor Ranges

• Seismic Sensor - Range reduced to 180m from 200m.
  
• Advanced Seismic Sensor - Range reduced to 250m from 400m.

Another pointless change. I demand the refund of the GXP I spent for the seismic sensor. This is unacceptable. This chance ONLY benefits assaults and heavies that equip it and screws lights and mediums that need it to scout and maneuver. Once again, a shining example of a dev team that does not bother to play the game.

Quote

Bug Fixes

• Missiles were sometimes doing more damage than their listed amount. This has been fixed.

Which ones? LRMs or SRMs? All of them? What's the damage difference? C'mon now if you're going to give information at least give it out properly.

[NextGame]

new map? great, always want new maps

more of these completely illogical heat changes? disgraceful, would rather have had no patch.

[Bors Mistral]

Good patch, nice changes, keep them coming.

I love the heat system extension. Short of it not being transparent enough at the moment or new-player, it's a very nice gameplay addition.

Yes, the ERLL, LL, LPL heat stack doesn't really do anything - as already noted, no sane people alpha those together to begin with. It's being done is more of a question of principle. Hardly anyone's affected, why complain?

Same for LRMs and SRMs. That's not the last thing that will be done to those weapons. SRMs will get the rest of their fixes soon, and I'm sure most of us do not wish for a triumphant return of the SplatCat of old.

2xPPC + Gauss, ah, so many complaints... A projectile speed change will be coming. Yes, we know we want some convergence. Sadly, that one probably isn't going to happen soon.

In the end though, let's keep the constructive suggestions running and push down the whine.

[Fishhawk]

Skyfaller, on 30 July 2013 - 12:12 PM, said:

Another pointless change. I demand the refund of the GXP I spent for the seismic sensor. This is unacceptable. This chance ONLY benefits assaults and heavies that equip it and screws lights and mediums that need it to scout and maneuver. Once again, a shining example of a dev team that does not bother to play the game.

Actually it benefits lights and mediums too. Remember, Assaults and Heavies can have seismic as well. Now it's easier for Lights and Mediums to sneak up behind them.