71 replies to this topic

[Chemie]

SRM have the same issue:

http://mwomercs.com/...maths-is-wrong/

You get to fire 18 missiles with no heat penalty on SRM6 but only 8 missiles on SRM2 (and 16 on SRM4). Makes no sense.

LRM are not a big issue, easy to fire volleys spaced by 0.5 seconds. More issue around newbs and confusions from all players to know how to config their macros efficiently with a confusing system.

Edited by Chemie, 31 July 2013 - 01:01 PM.

[Unbound Inferno]

TexAss, on 31 July 2013 - 12:59 PM, said:

Great, now that you pointed that out, every other game in the world will laugh at us and our "balance".

I can't take this serious anymore.

Did they ever?

Chemie, on 31 July 2013 - 01:00 PM, said:

SRM have the same issue:

http://mwomercs.com/...maths-is-wrong/

You get to fire 18 missiles with no heat penalty on SRM6 but only 8 missiles on SRM2 (and 16 on SRM4). Makes no sense.

LRM are not a big issue, easy to fire volleys spaced by 0.5 seconds. More issue around newbs and confusions from all players to know how to config their macros efficiently with a confusing system.

Sort of. Massed AMS kills the chain fire far too easy - and that I don't like as the one of the few redeeming factors of the Catapult to break AMS is nerfed now.

[Budor]

Did you consider switching to PPCs?

[Unbound Inferno]

Budor, on 31 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Did you consider switching to PPCs?

My Atlai drive PPC/AC20 for a reason...

[Khobai]

Nobody understand the heat penalties or why PGI felt the need to nerf weapons that werent even overpowered while completely ignoring the weapons that are. This **** has ruined the game and needs to be removed ASAP.

[Joseph Mallan]

Not only all of these complaints but a +24 heat on 2 AC20? Every other weapon gets a SINGLE digit heat penalty but the AC20... have 2 of them and you get an instant 200% heat increase! BS!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 31 July 2013 - 06:22 PM.

[Skyfaller]

Unbound Inferno, on 30 July 2013 - 01:37 PM, said:

Explain this to me...
...
So, an explanation PGI?

Stupid is, stupid does SIR.

(plus its easy to make mistakes when you don't bother to play the game).

[Joseph Mallan]

Skyfaller, on 31 July 2013 - 06:24 PM, said:

Stupid is, stupid does SIR.

And PGI has cornered Stupid for the moment.

[FerrolupisXIII]

i fully admit to being a team player (hello signature!) but my stats are not fantastic. mostly due to the fact that i play on an out of date laptop with a 2.2ghz dual core and a 512mb graphics card XD i admit to not being a fantastic shot outside of those problems but it would help to not play at 4 to 10 FPS all the time eh?

anyways. i do understand that the LRM-20 has a crap pattern. but i usually do better overall damage than my LRM-15 mechs. i prefer my dual LRM-15 catapult for maneuverability reasons.

i disagree with your thoughts on damage spread for LRM's in general. i think splashing damage onto the shoulders is certainly a plus. it makes openings for other mechs closer in to take advantage of. or you'll splash a damaged component and rip it off. I'm a firm believer in the fact that LRM's are heavy support weapons, designed to open up advantages for other mechs, or to finish off damaged units as they attempt to disengage friendlies.

as to your questions on my fittings, here you go.

Catapult C1- http://mwo.smurfy-ne...0e3c55e17fce416

[Aim64C]

FerrolupisXIII, on 01 August 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

anyways. i do understand that the LRM-20 has a crap pattern. but i usually do better overall damage than my LRM-15 mechs. i prefer my dual LRM-15 catapult for maneuverability reasons.

i disagree with your thoughts on damage spread for LRM's in general. i think splashing damage onto the shoulders is certainly a plus. it makes openings for other mechs closer in to take advantage of. or you'll splash a damaged component and rip it off. I'm a firm believer in the fact that LRM's are heavy support weapons, designed to open up advantages for other mechs, or to finish off damaged units as they attempt to disengage friendlies.

The problem is that LRMs, currently, are mostly useless.

If you have Artemis and TAG, you can do okay with them - but it's a sort of all-or-nothing weapon. Not to mention it suffers from horrible hit-detection. The reason they are having so many problems with it is the way they are implementing TAG and Artemis. It decreases the cluster size and compacts more missiles into a single region. This means that an LRM40 salvo turns into a 48+ point alpha that mostly lands on the center torso. You can core assaults very quickly with that.

Drop the TAG and Artemis bonuses, and it's giving the target mech a light sandblasting.

So up the damage? Now you've got a 60-point alpha going mostly into the center torso. Increase the spread and you're back to the same problem with diffuse damage.

Not to mention, missiles use the lazy system of homing where they do not lead the target - which means anything moving above a certain speed is effectively invulnerable to the missiles (while traveling parallel). Some of the quirky wiggling seems to be an attempt at target leading - but it's hard to tell what the hell is really going on (it could be server desynchs and indicative of the hit-detection issues more than anything).

At the end of the day, though - LRM spread is not effective to play the game with. You're out of missiles with no real damage being done to the enemy. Missiles have been balanced against their clustering after having armor doubled. Having them spread out is just not effective. Missile damage would have to go up to 2.0 damage per missile (or slightly higher, even) and would have to home on bones (or implement some kind of terminal scattering) to really work as the fire support weapons they should be.

[El Bandito]

Joseph Mallan, on 31 July 2013 - 06:21 PM, said:

Not only all of these complaints but a +24 heat on 2 AC20? Every other weapon gets a SINGLE digit heat penalty but the AC20... have 2 of them and you get an instant 200% heat increase! BS!

Classic Band-Aid fix brought to you by PGI.

Edited by El Bandito, 02 August 2013 - 03:58 AM.

[Blackadder]

Yes LRM 10, LL and a few other weapons make no sense in regards to penality. However the bigger issue, is that larger weapons systems do not suffer any penalties at all really vs the size. .25 reload from LRM 10 to LRM 15 is a joke.

[ztac]

I really don't see what the problem is , as the scaling is equal , but LRM in themselves do seem overpowered when there are a few LRM boats in a team. couple that with that the snipers and it gets to be a joke. It's kind of funny how the balance seems to just be going round in circles though , Everyone seems to prefer a certain weapon for whatever reason , then they try to get all the other weapons nerfed , that probably explains a lot!

[ObsidianSpectre]

Budor, on 31 July 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Did you consider switching to PPCs?

It does seem to be the only viable weapon left for large mechs.

[Void Angel]

Unbound Inferno, on 30 July 2013 - 03:16 PM, said:

This game's being catered for the 'competitive player' by only letting the PPC/Gauss/AC20 be the ONLY build that works.
And I'm getting sick of that.

So all the recent nerfs to the high-alpha meta(with more on the way,) specifically the builds you referenced, are completely lost on you. Do you use pharmaceuticals to maintain your fantasy world, or is it just sheer willpower?

The missile heatscale numbers may need to be tweaked (and the damage numbers of LRMs, once boating is toned down) but the nerf to alpha strike direct-damage builds is far more severe than any LRM limitations.

[MechWarrior849305]

I just couldn't understand OPs post Please, someone explain in a simple words, what this whine is all about?
You want to take two LRM10 and deal the same amount of damage as with dual LRM20 in a single volley. Really? Or you just whine about weigh and size, that are bigger on bigger calibers. And? What's so wrong? Or you want to deal the same amount of damage with the mech 20 tons less, than "true" damage dealer. Are you serious?

[Unbound Inferno]

DuoAngel, on 02 August 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

I just couldn't understand OPs post Please, someone explain in a simple words, what this whine is all about?
You want to take two LRM10 and deal the same amount of damage as with dual LRM20 in a single volley. Really? Or you just whine about weigh and size, that are bigger on bigger calibers. And? What's so wrong? Or you want to deal the same amount of damage with the mech 20 tons less, than "true" damage dealer. Are you serious?

I want 4(four){4x}[quad] LRM-10 which equals 40 missiles to be launched without this stupid heat penalty.
Right now firing 4x LRM-10 generates about twice the heat of two LRM-20s.

[Void Angel]

It also generates about 26% more dps than the LRM20 setup.

[Unbound Inferno]

Void Angel, on 02 August 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

It also generates about 26% more dps than the LRM20 setup.

Should see what the 6x LRM-5 A1 can do on a good day. That thing is scary - racks up its own heat a bit fast tho.

[Co Ward]

Braggart, on 30 July 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

It doesnt. The system is fine.

LET ME DUMB IT DOWN FOR EVERYONE.

FIRE YOUR MISSILES IN 2 SEPERATE GROUPS AND YOU WILL INCUR NO HEAT PENALTY. ALL YOU NEED IS .5 SECONDS INBETWEEN VOLLEYS, AND YOU WILL GET NO HEAT PENALTY.

YOU CAN RUN THE EXACT SAME LOADOUTS AS BEFORE THE HEAT PENALTIES CAME, YOU SIMPLY ALTER HOW YOU FIRE, YOU DONT FIRE 1 BLOB, YOU FIRE 2 SMALLER BLOBS .5 SECONDS APART FROM EACH OTHER.

also. these changes were a buff to things like the lrm20. people would take the smaller launchers and take multiples because of the quicker recharge. Now we have a reason to take the heavier like the lrm20. Otherwise play as normal.

doing this also increases the chances of hitting the CT with more missiles. that people have not realised that chain firing lrms is better than alpha is rather amusing to me.