19 replies to this topic

[Deacon412]

if i have a lrm 15 and an lrm 20 they are both their respective weapon except if i link them the lrm15 goes bipolar and gives off the heat of an lrm 20?
being as respectful as possible right now.....some one didnt think about this change very hard.

[TheBaptist]

No, if you fire 2 LRM 15's and an LRM 20 you trigger the heat scale which is based on some witchcraft math that is all based off the base heat of the unit. The base heat it will choose is that of the LRM 20 since it is larger, if it chose the LRM 15 you would get significantly less heat.

In the end you get 2x heat from LRM 15 + scaled up heat from 1 LRM 20

If you don't hit that alpha limit for LRMs you will not get the added heat, you will just get the normal base heat from each launcher

Edited by TheBaptist, 30 July 2013 - 02:48 PM.

[Deacon412]

still is a terribad way to manipulate combat based on nonsense.

[Gandalfrockman]

I wasnt sure about the heat scaling thing at first, but once you get your head around the idea it actually works out pretty well.
It doesnt make running alpha heavy builds impossible, but it keeps them from being inherently superior, to other loadout styles.

[LastPaladin]

Gandalfrockman, on 30 July 2013 - 03:13 PM, said:

I wasnt sure about the heat scaling thing at first, but once you get your head around the idea it actually works out pretty well.
It doesnt make running alpha heavy builds impossible, but it keeps them from being inherently superior, to other loadout styles.

The problem is that there are other, more logically sensible and easier to understand ways to achieve the exact same thing. It seems to me that the devs must have adopted a rule that they will never implement anything that the players suggest, though. So, they couldn't implement any of the logical fixes that were suggested and had to invent some gonzo system of their own instead.

[Anais Opal]

"Linked weapons will always use the highest base heat value and highest multiplier of the weapons fired.

Are you kidding me on?? I get a DOUBLE heat penalty, first, i get penalised for firing more than two and second I get penalised AGAIN by the smaller weapon using the heat of the larger one.

i.e I fire 2 LLAS and an LPL so the base heat and multipliers used are for the LPL on BOTH the LLAS??"

http://mwomercs.com/...-the-new-patch/

[Nauht]

I seriously don't understand how hard a concept this is - alpha less.

Alpha on everything will incur a heat penalty.

Chainfire those LRM50+ and, hey presto, no heat penalty. Besides with the tube restrictions on most mechs it'd be like you're chainfiring anyway.

[Anais Opal]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

I seriously don't understand how hard a concept this is - alpha less.

Alpha on everything will incur a heat penalty.

Chainfire those LRM50+ and, hey presto, no heat penalty. Besides with the tube restrictions on most mechs it'd be like you're chainfiring anyway.

Thing with that is, in some situations you have to deliver your payload quickly or lose your own 'Mech, chainfire the PGI way is too slow. You can button smash (or be an unskilled macro user - yes i said unskilled macro user) which works around the heat penalties but give it a month or two and soon you can't button smash because PGI has determined that you shouldn't be able to fire your weapons half a second apart without incurring the HHP the righteous Holy Heat Penalty. Soon we'll have to have a weapon of each type on our 'Mechs which we have to fire two seconds apart.

Edited by GlycerineOxide, 30 July 2013 - 04:16 PM.

[Nauht]

Uh-huh but you can still chainfire in the meantime until they implement what you're saying is going to happen in the future which by the way I need lotto numbers for next week.

Hell you dont even need chainfire. Set up one weapon group with 2 weapons. Press that first. Then press the second group 0.5 seconds later. 0.5 secs is still damn fast.
Any delay with pressing buttons will usually be more than 0.5 secs anyway.

[Anais Opal]

We're digressing, the subject is heat and the fact that the HIGHEST base heat and multiplier is being used for the SMALLEST of the weapons.

i.e I fire 2 LLAS and an LPL so the base heat and multipliers used are for the LPL on BOTH the LLAS.

or

I fire 2xLRM15's and an LRM20 so the base heat and multiplier of the LRM20 is applied to both the LRM15's and the LRM20 effectively giving me a penalty for firing 3xLRM20's.

Thats a double heat penalty by anyone's math.

What we have with heat is PGI throwing bandaids onto things without actually thinking about them.

[Nauht]

GlycerineOxide, on 30 July 2013 - 04:36 PM, said:

We're digressing, the subject is heat and the fact that the HIGHEST base heat and multiplier is being used for the SMALLEST of the weapons.

i.e I fire 2 LLAS and an LPL so the base heat and multipliers used are for the LPL on BOTH the LLAS.

or

I fire 2xLRM15's and an LRM20 so the base heat and multiplier of the LRM20 is applied to both the LRM15's and the LRM20 effectively giving me a penalty for firing 3xLRM20's.

Thats a double heat penalty by anyone's math.

What we have with heat is PGI throwing bandaids onto things without actually thinking about them.

No we're not.

Chainfire and you get no heat penalty. Those LRM15 grouped in 2 will have LRM15 heat. Wait the 0.5 secs then fire off the LRM20 with LRM20 heat.

Alpha them and the heat penalty will apply with LRM20 base heat.

Ergo, alpha less, chainfire more.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Some weapons are designed to be fired in alpha.

Like SRM's or Medium and Small lasers. Machine Guns.

All this silly crap bandaid is going to do is start encouraging alpha builds that include more diverse makeups like 2 LL + 3 SRM6+ + AC20 or 2PPC + 2 LL + gauss

It is a minor inconvenience to people who want to play high alpha builds, and a major pain in the *** to people who want to build niche builds like ac/20 mechs or PPC snipers or Missle batteries.

2 PPC + gauss + UAC5 + ERLL is the new alpha sniper by the way. ~50 point ranged pinpoint alpha with absolutely no heat scaling penalty.

[Anais Opal]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 04:40 PM, said:

Alpha them and the heat penalty will apply with LRM20 base heat.

Exactly, bad math and a double, sneaky heat penalty. I'm not disputing the chainfire, i agree, I'm disputing the crap way the penalty is now being calculated.

Xandre Blackheart, on 30 July 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Some weapons are designed to be fired in alpha.

Like SRM's or Medium and Small lasers. Machine Guns.

All this silly crap bandaid is going to do is start encouraging alpha builds that include more diverse makeups like 2 LL + 3 SRM6+ + AC20

Funny that's my D-DC build and has been for months 75 point alpha (according to the mechlab - think something is wrong there)

[Nauht]

Xandre Blackheart, on 30 July 2013 - 04:44 PM, said:

Some weapons are designed to be fired in alpha.

Like SRM's or Medium and Small lasers. Machine Guns.

All this silly crap bandaid is going to do is start encouraging alpha builds that include more diverse makeups like 2 LL + 3 SRM6+ + AC20 or 2PPC + 2 LL + gauss

It is a minor inconvenience to people who want to play high alpha builds, and a major pain in the *** to people who want to build niche builds like ac/20 mechs or PPC snipers or Missle batteries.

2 PPC + gauss + UAC5 + ERLL is the new alpha sniper by the way. ~50 point ranged pinpoint alpha with absolutely no heat scaling penalty.

That sounds pretty good. Build me a decent mech that can carry that with enough ammo and decent armour on smurfy.

Actually I'll accept my own challenge and see if I can do that. Off the top of my head I'm thinking HGN to start with.

[Anais Opal]

D-DC alllllllllllll they way 'cause the Atlas is the mutts nuts

[Tennex]

i think the LRM15 just gets extra heat penalty as if it were a LRM20. the base heat is the same still

that seems to make the most sense to me. But idk with paul

[Draslin Darkforge]

This is meant to cause you to generate more diverse damage spread across the target. However, this is a bad fix for a problem that was somehow missed in THE LAST THREE MECHWARRIOR GAMES AND ALL EXPANSIONS. Fix Convergence. Make it closer to Canon, and voila! Problem solved.

[Xandre Blackheart]

Nauht, on 30 July 2013 - 04:48 PM, said:

That sounds pretty good. Build me a decent mech that can carry that with enough ammo and decent armour on smurfy.

Actually I'll accept my own challenge and see if I can do that. Off the top of my head I'm thinking HGN to start with.

Psst... atlas (not ddc) if you go with ddc you have to drop the ERLL

Oh and to inspire you:

Clowns!

Edited by Xandre Blackheart, 31 July 2013 - 11:29 AM.

[Airicut]

I don't know crap about the mech warrior, battle tech universe. I have played this game maybe 3 months. I've spent prolly $200 or so. I wont spend any more. It honestly seems like they just spit out idea's and try them instead of actually thinking about the effect it has. The heat scheme in this game is dumb. Linking different weps.....that's dumb. And everyone crying about alpha builds....get over it. A game should for everyone. I run an alpha build and heat efficient builds. It depends on my mood and what style of play I want. Doing the same thing over and over gets boring. Seriously. I spend several thousand dollars a year on games I play, but this one aint gonna get any more from me. Hell I spent $700 in 3 months on W.O.T. I think im gonna go back to it. And yes, I know you battle tech stuck ups wont miss me. This gaming company will miss my wallet though.

[Mad Elf]

My main complaint about all this nonsense?

This is supposed to be a simulator game...

Exactly what is the physics behind all this?

Other than "we needed a nerf, and this was the worst idea we could come up with..."