57 replies to this topic

[mailin]

Sorry, but there are really only two ways to effectively run a Raven 3L, and neither of them use a PPC. ECM, XL295, 2 streaks and either 3 mlas or 2 mlas and a TAG. I use the latter. NARC is a waste. So is AMS on an ECM mech. There may be some use on an Atlas, but anything lighter should be able to run away from the tagging mech or move behind cover. If you can't with a 3L, 2D, 5D or 3M, you're doing something wrong. A PPC requires you to stop, or at least slow down and gives your position away. When I see a 3L or a 3M with PPCs I just laugh and promptly engage them whether I'm in my Spider or Raven or Jenner or Cicada. The only lights that worry me that can carry PPCs are the Jenners because they can mount more than one and have jump jets. No jump jets and not a heavy? Then a PPC is strictly a niche weapon. As far as the argument about using a PPC to cancel the ECM, sure it works, but there are two problems. First, the ECM is only cancelled for 4 seconds, which is maybe enough time for the lrms to lock and fire, but not enough time to successfully track to the target, and as stated before, a PPC gives your ECM unit away. It is much better to use tag on the enemy's furthest unit and let the lrms do their dirty work while you remain undetected under cover of ECM.

Edited by mailin, 31 July 2013 - 05:20 AM.

[Nebelfeuer]

Viral Matrix, on 30 July 2013 - 11:22 PM, said:

Its not that i die quickly, with ECM, i can run around until the end of the match, especially if i dont do a lot of shooting. Its that the intel i put up while running around isnt being used by my team. Like i said, if im scouting, most of the enemy team is gonna be on radar..

This might be the actual problem. In a pug group you should not try to give em as much information as possible since that normaly leads to everyone piking his own target. Try to filter the information for them by highligting only the most important ones(preferably one at a time) - that way you will focus their attention towards it and get much better results.
Generally scouting can be very effective and fun, even in pug groups if done correctly, but you will still encounter groups that can not be helped.

[Remarius]

mailin, on 31 July 2013 - 05:19 AM, said:

It is much better to use tag on the enemy's furthest unit and let the lrms do their dirty work while you remain undetected under cover of ECM.

Any half competent pilot will notice the ray of death unless its right behind them. Its one of my main sources for intel about enemy mechs. The always on people really should think twice about being so lazy.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Scouting can win games. So a definitive no to uselessness !

I do agree that Narc is a bit too high of an investment. Go with a standard skirmishing loadout. MLs and Streaks, but a Tag is ok IMHO.

I think this i best because:
- If you run into enemy lights, you can fight them well.
- If there's a lot of lights on your team you can roll with them and harras the enemy like there's no tomorrow.
- You can stealth it up and mark targets for your team, tell them which route the enemy is taking (can easily win the game on some maps !), and then when the game turns into a brawl, you can go in with the Streaks and the Lasers.

Also, as the game goes on and more people get better at it, scouting will become more and more effective on average. Especially if people start recognizing map specific tactics that allow them to win with ease. (e.g. if the enemy is going Tunnel in forest colony, and you find out in time, it's nearly a free win)

[Barantor]

A scout is far from useless.... unless...

I've seen many "scouts" go full throttle right to where they think the enemy is, then spot them all for half a second while running around them only to get killed miles from where any help is. If the LRM boats are more than 1000m away from where the enemy is, then just scout positions, don't give away yours easily with tag.

Had a guy go "Why didn't you shoot any missiles morons, I lit them all up?!" in game once... he didn't realize he was 1200m out from the nearest LRM launcher....

Staying alive is more important than locating all the enemy within the first 3 minutes.

[Elyam]

Op, you're doing a good service. I'd say keep it up and perhaps at match start make some short bullet-point team announcements telling them to expect tag and narc, and tell them whenever your drone is up or done. I've seen a few people do great work with the drones giving visibility over key ridges, such as ice map ridge/crashed-dropship area, the volcano map crater, and all over the canyonlands map.

[mailin]

Remarius, on 31 July 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

Any half competent pilot will notice the ray of death unless its right behind them. Its one of my main sources for intel about enemy mechs. The always on people really should think twice about being so lazy.

Where did I say anything about leaving it always on? Let me tell you how to do it. First, sneak behind the enemy. Then, press R until you find the enemy closest to you (furthest in the back). Zoom in on the enemy all the way and move your torso/arms a bit until the cross hairs are in the middle of his back. Fire your TAG. (Making sure it's in its own weapon group and that group is set to alpha.) When the enemy is destroyed, rinse and repeat. If the enemy turns around, or you are spotted by other enemies, run away to a different location and try again. NEVER have the tag on all the time and never turn it on until after you determine who you are going to use it on and can clearly hit him with it.

Edited by mailin, 31 July 2013 - 09:58 AM.

[Viral Matrix]

Nebelfeuer, on 31 July 2013 - 06:19 AM, said:

This might be the actual problem. In a pug group you should not try to give em as much information as possible since that normaly leads to everyone piking his own target. Try to filter the information for them by highligting only the most important ones(preferably one at a time) - that way you will focus their attention towards it and get much better results.
Generally scouting can be very effective and fun, even in pug groups if done correctly, but you will still encounter groups that can not be helped.

Thats a really interesting way of looking at it. Ill try this mindset, it sounds like itll be more effective.

[Void Angel]

DLFReporter, on 30 July 2013 - 10:30 PM, said:

I noticed that communicating your role as scout does help a lot. I also see some people calling out their LRM boats, so you could try and work together with one of those. Now I know this happens not as often, but a way to adapt to this would be to get rid of the Narc. Throw in a SRM and you'll do better.
As for the rest of the team playing dufus... well that is PUrGatory. ^^

Screw the Narc. It's inferior to TAG right now, and you're absolutely better off with an SRM (or Streak SRM) than with the Narc launcher. I'm sure they'll get around to balancing it eventually, but since other systems fulfil its role and are wrapped up in the whole "ECM counterplay" thing, it hasn't been a top priority. With good reason, to be sure, but until they do get around to it, skip that gear.

[Void Angel]

Losing the Narc will also help you in two ways: it'll keep you much farther away from the enemy, and it'll avoid confusing your beloved teammates as to which target they should be LRM-ing. Most of them have probably never even SEEN the Narc icon on a 'mech, and with no voice coms to coordinate, they'll just pick their own, like the man said earlier.

Just try to call out the grid of their main body, be thankful every day that you have ECM, and use that Narc launcher to mount Streaks for light defense.

[Void Angel]

On that note, be sure you're TAG-ing the heavies and Stalkers first; they're the ones that typically mount the most weaponry for thier tonnage - so you want to kill them first, since you're eliminating more of their team's firepower per point of damage neede to put them down.

Finally, always remember that they can tell if they're being spotted, even if they don't see your TAG. When they get that LRM warning with no enemies on their HUD, they are going to look around and spot you quickly. Make sure you've planned your escape route and pointed your legs toward your planned egress before you hit that TAG. =)

[mailin]

Remember that the job of a scout isn't just to get locks for the lrms. It's also to let the team know where the enemy is and where they are going. Also, when the lrms do start coming down, inform your lrm boats when to not fire can be as important as giving them targets. If three targets present themselves, but they are firing on a guy that is trying to move under cover, the lrm boats need to know this.

[Smokeyjedi]

When scouting, I mean actually scouting, Information and speed and relay of information is probably the most power weapon in the game, crushes an AC20 or several every time........ if people weren't worried about their own personal score so much, and more of a 8man goes in 8man comes out mentality, this would elevate our entire teams strengths......and make the team a single giant juggernaut beast!

[Morang]

Kiiyor, on 30 July 2013 - 11:51 PM, said:

Even running away in terror can be considered scouting; If the rest of your lance watches your %s fleeing your name whilst your triangle frantically squiggely-weaves its way back towards the herd, they can assume there are lots of enemies after a piece of your hide.

Not all communication in PUGS is verbal. The actions of a scout can speak louder than words.

When I retreat from enemy pursuit, I often use my lasers to get attention, firing them in front of my distant team members (towards whom I run). More often than not friendly pilot seeing laser beam across his field of view will turn to investigate and notice me being pursued.

[Cion]

PUGs are and always will be a gamble when playing roles, but there are things you can do to improve your chances:

Start by scouting your own team! See what mech they have and ask if anyone is an LRM boat. Try to use coms like "lock B".

Adapt to your team (I know it's hard), if you see no LRMs, the switch function to harasser, play cover for assaults or something.

That means that you won't be a full scout every game. I'm not a brawler in my medium every game if everyone is long range since that's a sure death. I'm not a spotter in my light if I'm the only light in my team and the enemy has 3 lights...

Good luck!

[mailin]

Cion, on 01 August 2013 - 04:40 AM, said:

PUGs are and always will be a gamble when playing roles, but there are things you can do to improve your chances:

Start by scouting your own team! See what mech they have and ask if anyone is an LRM boat. Try to use coms like "lock B".

Adapt to your team (I know it's hard), if you see no LRMs, the switch function to harasser, play cover for assaults or something.

That means that you won't be a full scout every game. . . . I'm not a spotter in my light if I'm the only light in my team and the enemy has 3 lights...

Good luck!

But if the enemy has 3 lights you may be able to even the odds a bit. Get their attention and try to get them to follow you as you flee in terror. If one or two follow you they will soon be in weapons range of your buddies. My team has frequently managed to eliminate all of the enemy lights in this way. The downside to this is that as you are fleeing you will be taking damage. Try to mitigate this by dodging and using terrain. If the enemy turns back, take it as an opportunity to quickly turn around and begin firing on them. This usually results in them chasing you again.

Edited by mailin, 01 August 2013 - 05:29 AM.

[Sam Slade]

Viral Matrix, on 30 July 2013 - 11:30 PM, said:

Yea i played yesterday.

I'm pretty sure I dropped in a game with you. The NARCing was awesome... had almost total battlefield coverage... group of three people ignored it all and lemminged into a furball to shoot LRMs at point blank.

Get youreself on TS and link up with an LRM boat or two.... excellent scouting.

[Ph30nix]

just note Narcs are pretty gimped even after their last "buff" if they are under an ECM cloud they might as well not even be on the enemy mech.

[Void Angel]

This is the major reason why Narc is disadvised in current weapon balancing. Since it can't cut through ecm, it's long duration and automatic functioning aren't enough to make up for TAG's range - even with the requirement to paint targets with the TAG laser.

[Sam Slade]

A NARCed scout or skirmisher is usually a dead scout or skirmisher... i love having a good NARCer around when I have LRMs