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Is Being A Pug Scout Useless?


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#41 LiegeOfThePit

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 09:44 AM

Most team members don't communicate with everyone else which is the main flaw. I honestly believe that this loadout for a raven is good because ravens can play multiple roles, can they are meant to be scouts and also work well with good modules and a beagle active probe but are also meant to destroy other light mechs due to the fact that it's on the heavier side of lights and has a smaller engine. Over all I believe that this loadout is good if you are communicating with a missile boat, with a few team members or your entire team.

#42 Void Angel

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:04 AM

The problem with the Narc is that it's hard-countered by ECM, very short-ranged, and a bulky, heavy weapon system for something that fulfills the role of a TAG. Take those three tons and four slots somewhere else, like lasers and/or streaks to defend yourself against the light packs that are cropping up everywhere since Sarah's Jenner came out.

Edited by Void Angel, 02 August 2013 - 11:05 AM.


#43 Deathlike

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:14 AM

The current iteration of NARC actually counters ECM.. AFAIK.

The thing about being a scout in PUGs is that its not well rewarded. However, it helps to provide into like #s and location data back to your teammates. Most of the time, they will tend to blindly move towards any red target on the screen... so you need to be careful on what you tell your team.

You will never be able to get ALL of the players to do the right thing, but if/when you can, it can make a difference in a match.

Edited by Deathlike, 02 August 2013 - 11:16 AM.


#44 Void Angel

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Posted 02 August 2013 - 11:15 AM

Er, not unless I missed a major patch note. Lemme check...

Edit: Yeah, they buffed its range and ammo/ton on the May 21st patch, but ECM is still a hard counter.

Edited by Void Angel, 02 August 2013 - 11:23 AM.


#45 Pewpewzapzap

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:11 AM

I guess my question is why pug scout?
Why not go to one of the community TS servers form up a 4 man, so that you can have a team that will be able to anticipate and work with your scouting comms feedback?

Even better you could then line up mechs that would better appreciate your scouting, NARCs, and TAGs (i.e. w/ lrms).



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#46 mailin

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:39 AM

The only advantage that NARC has over TAG is you hit once, and then can dash away for a bit. The advantages of TAG far outweigh those of NARC. TAG weighs only 1 ton, doesn't require ammo (which can explode for a bit of damage), and cuts through ECM, easy to keep it on a moving target, and longer range.

#47 East Indy

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 05:42 AM

View PostViral Matrix, on 30 July 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

stumbling around stupidly.

It's luck of the draw. Yesterday was without question the worst sequence of match-ups; I've never seen so many groups either lacking sense or lacking understanding of the game altogether.

The rest of the time, though, I've played with some very responsive groups, particularly when I've scouted. Follow the better techniques listed here by other players, and keep at what you enjoy.

#48 Not A Real RAbbi

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:49 PM

Yes. Scouts are not wanted in PUG.

You can TAG, but they won't fire at your targets.

You can NARC, but you're just wasting ammo.

You can call out target locations and enemy movements, and your pals will charge there headfirst, blaming you (when and if possible) for the foolishness of the charge.

USUALLY, anyhow.


If you're running a 3L or other ECM light, the thing to do is stick with the middle of the pack and help them stay out of the LRM rain until the up-close-and-personal fighting gets heavy.


I've gotten VERY little love trying to do recon work in PUG matches, and much less than I had expected even with a team.


I'm hoping that 12v12 and larger maps will bring the scout/recon role a little more love. But for now, no one wants us.

Yes. Scouts are not wanted in PUG.

You can TAG, but they won't fire at your targets.

You can NARC, but you're just wasting ammo.

You can call out target locations and enemy movements, and your pals will charge there headfirst, blaming you (when and if possible) for the foolishness of the charge.

USUALLY, anyhow.


If you're running a 3L or other ECM light, the thing to do is stick with the middle of the pack and help them stay out of the LRM rain until the up-close-and-personal fighting gets heavy.


I've gotten VERY little love trying to do recon work in PUG matches, and much less than I had expected even with a team.


I'm hoping that 12v12 and larger maps will bring the scout/recon role a little more love. But for now, no one wants us.

Yes. Scouts are not wanted in PUG.

You can TAG, but they won't fire at your targets.

You can NARC, but you're just wasting ammo.

You can call out target locations and enemy movements, and your pals will charge there headfirst, blaming you (when and if possible) for the foolishness of the charge.

USUALLY, anyhow.


If you're running a 3L or other ECM light, the thing to do is stick with the middle of the pack and help them stay out of the LRM rain until the up-close-and-personal fighting gets heavy.


I've gotten VERY little love trying to do recon work in PUG matches, and much less than I had expected even with a team.


I'm hoping that 12v12 and larger maps will bring the scout/recon role a little more love. But for now, no one wants us.

#49 Bartholomew bartholomew

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 06:51 PM

narc is almost usless due to ECM's hard counter.

I keep tag for spotting and to help SSRM lockup faster. I also find uav's to be useful. They hard counter ECM. And a bit of fun I have with them is to get behind the enemy pop a UAV and then hit somebody in the back and run! There is almost always five or six that try to find me. And seeing the UAV thinking it is a unit go towards it and then show up for evreybody else to see when they run to where it is.

People in pugs also usuallly listen when i call out where they are. usally something like c5 c6, and numbers and type if I have time or it is just a few. Calling out a flank when you see it helps too.

Tapping and capping are also powerful tools of the scout because it WILL split forces. And as often as not the people you will pull off are the better ones..

#50 Tesunie

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:03 PM

Scouting is random in PUGs, just as random as PUG teams are themselves. Sometimes you'll drop in a team who can use the intel, other times they will ignore all your work and scouting and go their own way.

Scouting and Spotter (and a few other roles) are not very well rewarded, even when played well. Sadly, right now this game favors the attackers, killers and high damage dealers. Not much else is rewarded for the moment. I suspect that they might be looking into end of match rewards soon, as I am not the only one to note such imbalances.

I have a thread that discusses some of what you are talking about here: http://mwomercs.com/...otting-rewards/

And I have a question in Ask the Devs 44 here: http://mwomercs.com/...e/page__st__100
(PS: If you want a certain question answered in Ask the Devs, fav it. The questions with the most favs are being aswered in their new format.)

The importance of scouts, and to some degree spotters, are currently not as rewarded nor as used as they probably should be. Instead of scout light mechs with a few strikers, we now have all striker class light mechs. They need to get something in for actually scouting, and reward it (somehow) as well as spotting.

All I have to say is, good luck. From how you operate, I'd love to have you on my team personally. I always find intel from my team is distinctly... lacking.

#51 Kageru Ikazuchi

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 07:50 PM

Interesting mix of opinions ... doing anything other than "follow the blob" in a PUG match is hit-and-miss (both for you and the opposing team).

I have had some success as a scout in PUG matches ... the key is communication (but your team might not listen).

I always announce my intentions ("scouting left", for example) before splitting off ...
... sometimes another light or two will follow
... sometimes the heavys will come to my rescue if I get trapped
... sometimes they'll be watching for more information

One little victory story, I'm particularly proud of ... I was scouting in my SDR-5D on Tourmaline, and found three assault mechs plodding along a flanking path, far from the center of the map, after spotting a group that I assumed was the "main body" on the normal path to the center. I called for our team to push/converge on the center group ... and they actually did ... 8v5 quickly because 8v0 ... then their flankers showed up ... 8v3 also quickly turned into 8v0. If I hadn't spotted the flanking group, and my team hadn't listened to my call to push center, the battle might have turned out much differently.

Useless ... no ... not always ... but it takes communication (typing is dangerous in a light, and communication is sketchy at best in a PUG).

Edited by Kageru Ikazuchi, 04 August 2013 - 08:44 PM.


#52 Shadowhunter99

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 06:30 AM

I find Spiders to be the best scout. They are the fastest of any other light. All of mine have a single ERLL on center torso. I have no armor on my side torsos or arms because I don't need them. I normally go all the way around the map to the enemy base to see if there are guards. On my way I look for enemies. If no one is at the base I ASK IF I SHOULD CAP AND WAIT FOR AN ANSWER. If I am told to get off cap I Get OFF. I can snipe the enemy from behind and they turn around looking for me and get nailed in the back by the rest of my team. Try to draw attention off your team and on yourself. They wont be able to hit you easily and your team can advance on them.

#53 Szkarlat M

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Posted 13 August 2013 - 08:33 AM

I tend to Pug scout a lot and while my effectiveness is questionable, I guess I play it like this. While not 100% scouting, I guess it still provides a role for lights in PUGs to have fun and what not.

1. Find the enemy, call out positions. Use "R"!
2. General harassment of the enemy big guns/slow guys or base cap. Basically anything to draw some of the enemy attention away from my team when the main forces meet to reduce their firepower.
3. Continue general harassment / join in main brawl.
4. Hunt lights other fast guys that are still left on the enemy side if I am still alive at that point.

#54 Denolven

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Posted 15 August 2013 - 04:30 AM

The current reward system makes it very painfull to be a pure scout. You won't get anything from it, except for the "you showed up" amount. Also, many players (both opponents and allies) will direct their hate on you when you cap, totally ignoring that putting pressure on the opponents is never bad.

That being said, a scout is NOT useless. It's just the most unthankfull job in the game. People will always yell at you for not bringing "a proper mech" or "blocking a slot that someone usefull could have taken". And even the game is mocking you, giving you nigh invisible rewards even if you totally won the game for your team.

I love being a scout. But the fact that anyone else can look just as far and as well as any light while the light will still be seen just as easily as an assault, combined with how unthankfull the whole experience is, made me switch from Spider to Jenner to Dragon to Stalker.
I'm tired of getting nothing but a punch in the face (and I'm not talking about getting shot).


TLDR:
Scouting as a separate role doesn't really exist in this game, because every mech has exactly the same abilities. If you do it anyway, prepare for alot of pain, because no rewards for you.

Edited by Denolven, 15 August 2013 - 04:39 AM.


#55 Szegedin

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:10 AM

Do scouts generally appreciate cover by other lights? Sometimes I see a dedicated scout heading off into the map, and follow him in my Jenner to give any enemy light cap-crews or scouting parties something else to shoot at if he runs into 'em.

But I worry about straying from his ECM cloud intermittantly and giving him away early not to mention being another visual contact someone could potentially see, also the issue of having two or more lights looking around one section of the map when we could be split and covering more ground.

Guess I could always ask him at the start, but curious what the scouts on here would say...

#56 Szkarlat M

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:25 AM

Definitely appreciate other lights joining in. Nothing throws terror into in heavy + assault mechs like a couple of lights running around it. Good for engaging other lights too as they usually take a few pot shots at each other and back away back to the main group if they're engaging more than one other light.

Wolf pack!!!!!!

#57 Tesunie

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 08:28 AM

Depends upon the skills of the other fast mech. I've been known to do an oopsie and shoot my LRMs while with the scout. He's not happy at me for "giving away our location". "SORRY! Wasn't thinking!" Othertimes, I'm going to preform a solo flank, and I'd rather you on the other side of my target for maximum confusion! Othertimes, I need the extra target with me so we can preform in tandam and rip apart solo lights we run across or any stray sheep from the enemy team...

Depends upon my mech, what I'm trying to do, and how we work together as a team. Personally, I'll work with anyone and see how it goes. I'd rather support someone else than run my own thing.

My best suggestion would be to (unless ECM is in question), scout a nearby section near your friendly light mech. Then, when the enemy finds you or him, they think only one mech is there. Then, blaze in from nearby and show them that you aren't just dealing with a single light, but two (or more) of them. Ducking in quick can also provide your ally with a chance to escape and regroup...

So many tactics. No real wrong choice. Find what works for you on average and go with it!

#58 Redbeard the Elder

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Posted 16 August 2013 - 09:55 PM

My Raven 3L is set up as an ERPPC sniper, with medium lasers and streaks for encounters with other lights. I still scout and report direction, shout out and chase if I see a light skirting around for a cap and such. If I have a good team that communicates/listens I'll go in the opposite direction of the main group and make some noise, fire quick and aimless rounds to draw attention so that the rest of my team gets a bunch of exposed backs to shoot at.

You don't need NARC and Tag to be useful as a light mech on a good team, even Pugs when you're lucky.





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