170 replies to this topic

[Cragger]

Strum Wealh, on 02 August 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

*applauds Silvercrest for finding a solution that doesn't involve the removal of one's antivirus suite.

Though, can we get an explanation from PGI of what, precisely, caused the issue in the first place, and why it affects only certain certain combinations of chipsets and antivirus suites?

It does put Avast in a low order functionality state and makes sandbox unreliable at it's purpose.

[Strum Wealh]

Cragger, on 02 August 2013 - 08:56 PM, said:

It does put Avast in a low order functionality state and makes sandbox unreliable at it's purpose.

However, it (apparently?) didn't do that before the most recent patch.
Thus the question of what specific change(s) to MWO (and/or Avast) caused this particular issue...?

[Cragger]

Strum Wealh, on 02 August 2013 - 09:25 PM, said:

However, it (apparently?) didn't do that before the most recent patch.
Thus the question of what specific change(s) to MWO (and/or Avast) caused this particular issue...?

It's an issue that involves the chipset as it only involves some AMD+Avast+MWO. The conflict was introduced by MWO as Avast did not push any updates or even definitions when this occured. This is a unique conflict that Of the 130 programs installed on my network is unique to MWO.

I honestly don't expect a fix from PGI on this any time soon since someone found a bandaid work around that puts Avast into a compromised state that PGI can state as a solution, okay good job done, next. You'll notice they have fallen silent since promoting turning off virtualization which pretty much makes Sandbox as effective as a three walled cell.

[Gremlich Johns]

I recommend everybody who has experienced this issue, regardless if they are using a workaround, to send an email to PGI's support email queue. If they are this unconcerned with this issue, what will happen the next time something else onerous appears.

I just sent mine off asking when we can expect a fix. We should not have to compromise our computers for something they are responsible for.

PGI< - I want to believe that you are working on this issue during the whole weekend until it is fixed, you love your player base that much.

Edited by Gremlich Johns, 03 August 2013 - 10:10 AM.

[Jujula]

OK! Bugs happened/ happen / will happen, but PGI please give us some detailed information when you want to solve this problem. Good luck with finding solution! THX for help!

J.

[Justin979271]

I love Mech Warrior Online. Really, it is one of my favorite games ever. But my computer's security comes first before pc gaming. I really don't want to enable the hardware virtualization or uninstall avast! I really hope there will be a fix soon, I haven't played Mech Warrior Online in 5 days. I'm dying to play ugh.

[Justin979271]

Muggins, on 03 August 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

When we have more information (including info on when we'll have this resolved) we'll post it here.

I'll reiterate again...

- the 2 'workarounds' are not considered final solutions
- PGI and IGP remain concerned with this issue

You are not obliged to undertake these workarounds under any circumstances if you are not absolutely comfortable with the risks associated. You are of course welcome to find an alternative method of protecting your machine. Avast! is by no means the only viable solution out there (and yes, it is far from ideal, especially if you paid for avast.).

Additional tickets are welcomed, though they will not help in prioritizing this in any way. The issue is already one that we regard as a very high priority and we look forward to getting this resolved as quickly as we can. Anyone holding off playing with premium time ticking down should definitely get in contact for assistance.

This is not the answer some of you are looking for. Hopefully we'll more information early next week.

Thanks
Muggins

Yes, thanks. I really don't feel comfortable using any of the work around methods. I hope the issue is fixed soon.

[Filth Pig]

I'm quite sure this is a very high priority issue. Avast probably wouldn't be too happy that their users are uninstalling their program because a 'game' takes issue with it.

[FREDtheDEAD]

Gremlich Johns, on 01 August 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

However, malware can escape from their holding cell and wreak havoc.

I don't need to play that badly. Yet.

That's not true.

Hardware assisted virtualisation enables use of some hardware acceleration features designed to speed up virtual machines. Disabling this feature doesn't disable the VM-based code analysis and sandbox systems nor reduce it's capabilities or security.

With this unticked, Avast's virtual code execution and sandbox features will be very slightly slower, that's all.

If you disable virtual machine acceleration features in your BIOS, it will have the same effect, as Avast won't see any hardware acceleration features to use.

Many BIOSes have VM acceleration disabled as default which could be why this problem varies from system to system.

EDIT: additional info for the curious: Unless you run full operating systems in VMs (like Virtual Box, Citrix or VirtualPC etc etc,) there's no good reason to enable hardware VM support. In fact it can slow down non-VM code. Very very very slightly. Enabled, it can speed up VM code very very slightly. It's not a deal-winning or breaking feature unless you depend of VMs running 24/7 at the maximum speed possible (eg are running a Citrix server!). Which is why most BIOSes disable it. My information is a year or two old and I suspect more modern implementations have mitigated inefficiencies introduced by VM acceleration and have VM acceleration enabled by default (and some people turn it on in the BIOSes themselves) but commenting further would mean I'd have to do some research and I'm lazy. Just untick the box in Avast or disable hardware VM acceleration in your BIOS. Avast will be fine.

Edited by Xajorkith, 04 August 2013 - 01:19 AM.

[Gremlich Johns]

Xajorkith, on 04 August 2013 - 01:00 AM, said:

That's not true.

While I appreciate your seemingly more profession opinion on this option, the Avast product specifically states when you uncheck the option:

"If hardware-assisted virtualization is disabled, some virtualization features will not work reliably. For example, malware may be able to escape the sandbox and infect the system. Changing this option will only take effect after a reboot."

Your explanation contradicts Avast's information. Are you telling us that malware cannot escape the Avast sandbox? That is my concern. And this event also beggars the question "Why did it happen in this patch?"

[FREDtheDEAD]

I'm intrigued why Avast say this, considering most computers have hardware virtualisation disabled. AFAIK "hardware assisted virtualisation" is the same thing as "hardware accelerated virtualisation".

I can't find anything online about the way Avast uses its VM features, unfortunately. Perhaps someone else can find out why Avast claim it's necessary for stability and security when it isn't going to be available to most users because of their BIOS settings (and there's no warning if you're running a PC with VM acceleration disabled). I'm using Avast with hardware acceleration disabled in the BIOS and the one time I had to use the sandbox it worked fine.

As I can't find any info on how Avast uses VMs, I certainly can't contradict what they say. It doesn't make any sense to me but they may be using the term Hardware Assisted in a different way to one I'm familiar with. A definition of hardware assisted virtualisation is here http://en.wikipedia...._virtualization

Software VM technology has been built into Windows since the days of NT. When you run any 16 bit code it's run in a VM in protected memory (Windows On Windows). I imagine Avast uses something like WOW to virtualise a program. Maybe.

The only thing I can find with Google: several forum topics a while ago about games that broke with Avast 8 - patches were released for the games.

Edited by Xajorkith, 04 August 2013 - 08:16 AM.

[AnubiteGroove]

So I disabled this virtualization, only to find my patcher/launcher wont even open now. I refuse to uninstall my anti-virus for this.

Any ideas?

Edited by AnubiteGroove, 04 August 2013 - 12:49 PM.

[AnubiteGroove]

NEW WORKAROUND. For anyone having issues still, try this!

Go to settings, find "Global Exclusions," and enter the Pir. Games folder. Maybe just bin32 would work.

I am not sure if virtualization need be disabled with this, as it still is for me, but it's working!

[Gremlich Johns]

AnubiteGroove, on 04 August 2013 - 01:10 PM, said:

NEW WORKAROUND. For anyone having issues still, try this!

Go to settings, find "Global Exclusions," and enter the Pir. Games folder. Maybe just bin32 would work.

I am not sure if virtualization need be disabled with this, as it still is for me, but it's working!

Didn't work for me, thanx anywayz, mate, good try.

[FREDtheDEAD]

I'd think it's just a compiler flag that AMD systems don't like. Wait for the next patch. If PGI can't roll out a fix with the upcoming patch, I will have to apply for a programmer position there because the minimum level of expertise would have very low to get a job.

[Tarl Cabot]

AnubiteGroove, on 04 August 2013 - 12:48 PM, said:

So I disabled this virtualization, only to find my patcher/launcher wont even open now. I refuse to uninstall my anti-virus for this.

Any ideas?

You mentioned you disabled it but did you reboot the system? A system reboot is needed for it be enable it after a fresh install of Avast!, or system reboot once it has been unchecked to have it disabled.

[Delphino]

I hate to rock the boat, but this is affecting me as well: I do use Avast (and have been very happy with it), but I run an Intel 4770K and a GTX780: Nothing AMD in my system at all, I believe I've seen the odd post here and there from others who are also having the same issue.

Also tried the suggested workarounds (short of uninstalling antivirus), with no luck.

While it certainly seems to be affecting a lot of AMD users, it isn't only affecting them.
Lodged a Support Ticket yesterday, still nothing more than an automated response. Sigh. This makes me sad because I want to drive giant robots and I can't

[NavyGunner]

LOL and I have both..... I have to say that I have not experienced any problems up until this last patch (as noted by the lack of posts).... Now I have keyboard keys (default) that are mapped in the options that do not work, graphic error with blue distortions around trees, RSS errors on startup etc etc..... Un checking the box in the Avast settings did allow me to start the game, however when the A and D keys do not work in the game why bother....

Edited by NavyGunner, 06 August 2013 - 10:32 AM.

[darkstar3825]

Still not fixed with this patch.

[Thorqemada]

Win7 x64
AMD FX 8350
GA990XA-UD3 (Bios F14b)
ATI HD 6950
Avast!

No Problems here.