177 replies to this topic

[Steel Claws]

You know what I see - I see a large slow clumbsy target.

[Angel of Annihilation]

GizmoGecko, on 01 August 2013 - 03:29 AM, said:

We've got gauss heavies and I don't see a lot of them anymore? Although that might be to do with the XL engines in Jagers and 'Pults coupled with the gauss explosion, and I'd definitely run a standard in my King Crab.

With all the possible disadvantages that could be attached to the 'mech like 0 degree arm yaw, slow torso turning speed, decreased rate of deceleration and a large surface area that would make my beloved Dragon seem like a spider in comparison, I'm sure they could make it work?

Please make it work it's not you it's me, don't let it end like this, you had me at hello...


To the people that said no, I'd like to hear your plea.

Personally I don't care one way or another and I agree with you because I don't see the whole balance issue that everyone else seems to see, especially not with the fact that paired AC/20s now can't be fired simultaniously anymore without massive heat issues.

Also we already have several Dual Gauss and AC/20 platforms running around but they aren't that common and that is because they aren't that great and people have realized this finally.

You analysis on the disadvantages is flawless as well. This mech would be ponderous to the extreme, even more so than a Stalker with the same firing arcs and less torso twist. Also it would be even easier than the Stalker to render useless as those massive side torso will be easily taken out, thus taking 50% of the mechs total firepower with it.

Anyway, I don't care about it and voted accordingly but I don't see why it couldn't be added and honestly prehaps they should just to break up the current parada of humaniod mechs with little character we have been seeing.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 04 August 2013 - 03:31 PM.

[Strum Wealh]

RavensScar, on 04 August 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

The KC would add some nice variety to the mech designs, and I agree that the split-locations really wouldn't be a problem. There are already several mechs where weapon locations and internals have been adjusted to make them work with the MWO rules. AC/20s in arms with no lower arm / hand actuators would be fine.

Last I checked, there were exactly two 'Mechs for which this was true in any significant way (e.g. other than moving rear-facing weapons to forward-facing)... and two does not usually constitute "several", especially out of a set of ~80.

• The CDA-3C had its Machine Guns moved up from the legs to the respective side-torsi, because MWO does not support leg-mounted weapons.
  
• The Yen Lo Wang had its starting Engine rating increased (from 200 to 215) because MWO does not support melee weapons at this time (which would have left 4 tons unaccounted for).

Which other 'Mechs are you indicating where "internals have been adjusted to make them work with the MWO rules"?

RavensScar, on 04 August 2013 - 01:11 PM, said:

However, the KC barely has 3 variants available going with Piranha's current rules - pre 3050, and no Royal units. KGC-000, KGC-0000 and KGC-010. That being said, the Quickdraw got in with 2 identical variants!

In terms of actual gameplay, I'm not sure the KC would actually be that good. It might end up with the speed of an Atlas, and the hit-boxes of an Awesome. I think we can all imagine how that would play.

An Atlas' speed, very nearly the Atlas' armor (starts at 93% of maximum armor), an Awesome's width, and the close-range firepower of a "Boom-Jager"/"Boom-Cat".

[Bishop Steiner]

CYBRN4CR, on 04 August 2013 - 03:49 PM, said:

Due to how PGI implemented the AC20 slotting I'd say all of the King Crab 000 variants (000, 000b, 0000) are flat out.

However, there ARE variants of the King Crab that completely bypass this problem. Take a look at the 001 010 and 007 variants.

010
Produced in-game year 2743 (ish)
2 ballistic 2 energy 2 missile
Endo Steel Internals
Double Heat Sinks
300SD engine
RA - Lower arm actuator, (no hand actuator), 1 ballistic slot (LBX10)
RT - 1 energy slot (PPC), 1 missile slot (SRM6)
CT
HD
LT - 1 energy slot (PPC), 1 missile slot (SRM6)
LA - Lower arm actuator, (no hand actuator), 1 ballistic slot (LBX10)

001
Produced in-game year 3052
2 ballistic 3 missile 1 energy
Ferro Fibrous Armor
Single Heat Sinks
300XL engine
RA - (no hand actuator OR lower arm actuator), 1 ballistic slot (Gauss Rifle)
RT - 1 energy slot (LPL), 1 missile slot (Streak 2)
CT
HD
LT - 2 missile slots (LRM15 Streak 2)
LA - (no hand actuator OR lower arm actuator), 1 ballistic slot (Gauss Rifle)

007
Produced in-game year 3071
2 ballistic 1 missile 3 energy
Light Ferro Fibrous Armor
Double Heat Sinks
300SD engine
RA - (no hand actuator OR lower arm actuator), 1 ballistic slot (Rotary AC5), 1 energy slot (Light PPC)
RT
CT - 1 missile slot (Streak 6)
HD
LT - 1 energy slot (Plasma Rifle)
LA - (no hand actuator OR lower arm actuator), 1 ballistic slot (Rotary AC5), 1 energy slot (Light PPC)

These offer the desired variety and ease of implementation with the current critical system. The 007 variant does have future technology, but all weapons fit without needing splitting, and there is no extra electronic systems like C3 to worry about. It is perfectly reasonable to assume these future weapons and equipment will be included given the time period and relative ease of coding them in the game (balance considerations aside).

An honorable mention could technically go to the 005 variant on the grounds that we don't know if PGI will also prevent LBX20s from splitting as well, and whether they are willing to consider adding C3i as a mountable piece of equipment at that time. For now, considering the balance implications of allowing an LBX to split while not for an AC20, and the same for what C3i could potentially do, it's probably best to assume this variant will be skipped.

There also is the 008 variant with 4 energy weapons (1 in each arm 2 in the head), 2 ballistic slots (one each side torso), ECM, C3i and 3 jump jets. All weapons and equipment fit without splitting. It also relies on PGI implementing cockpit and gyro upgrades on top of including C3i. It is likely PGI will implement cockpit and gyro upgrades by the time this variant is available, but the biggest issue is the balance implications of a jumping ecm capable dual ballistic 100 tonner, followed again with the C3i considerations. Considering these issues, it is best to suspect this variant will be skipped as well.

This means the earliest anyone can get a King Crab with all MWO's current constraints is basically at the start of the Jihad, which means, not right now. Not next year. Much much later, even with time jumps.

I don't think they are out at all.

Why?

Because the lower arm and hand actuators on a KGC did NOTHING anyhow. By splitting crits with the torsos, the TT rules restrict the range of motion to the MOST restricted area. Hence the AC20s are possibly even MORE limited in fire arc than with ones like the VTR with them all in the arms.

Where am I going with this? No split crits, means no split crits. Except the KGC doesn't need em. Just put the bloody things in the arms. All of them. Again, the mech doesn't gain or lose range of motion by doing so. And the "Claws" are just blast covers for the cannons anyhow. So simply make them opening and closing flaps, like the Catapult has. Which, does nto require actuators to do so.

[Bishop Steiner]

hopefully all, since as noted, they actually give no benefit anyhow. Of course their will be a few canonnazis who can't accept it, but oh well.

[MustrumRidcully]

Are we there yet?

[Der BruzZzler von Wiesndoof]

Voted option 3. I don't care!

A mech twice as wide like a Awesome, which breaks PGI's heat scale system? Yeah, why not. Wherever i shoot, i'll hit that ugly thing!

[Kasiagora]

I voted "I don't care" because I don't have any feelings one way or the other for the King Crab, (sorry) and although I really want the Crab (I love the thing), I think we already have too many 50 ton, non-jumping mechs.

[DoktorVivi]

I'd love them because aesthetically they are a lot different than the other mechs in the game. Plus, I'd like to see a mech that was actually designed to have double AC/20 instead of people shoehorning it in.

[Tom Sawyer]

Delta Leader moving to the ridge. OMG I GOT CRABS! CRABS I TELL YOU! THEY ARE ALL OVER ME! AAAAAAHHH

Delta 4 how many times must I tell you that your lack or personal hygine is no concern of mine. Delta 4?? DELTA 4??!! OMG CRABBBSSSS

High Command to Delta Squad. Damn it Major what the hell does it mean crabs killed Delta? I thought we had a training class on that.

[GizmoGecko]

There's a lot of crab love in quite a few posts in these forums, I hope we will actually be noticed by the people that can make a difference.

I wonder if the developers would actually look to us for what we want regarding 'mechs; have they done anything like that before, like a poll of a list of 'mechs to choose from? I do slightly remember an official Banshee related post that was made a while back, with variants of the Banshee and one or two other 'mechs to choose from, although my memory does not often serve me well.

As a suggestion, an in-game poll upon logging into the game? (Having passed the 1 million members mark, I'm guessing everyone on the forums are not the majority.) Although I understand not everyone knows all of the 'mechs out there (like me): a little description as to what each 'mech and its variants can offer perhaps?

They say they love the community of MWO, why not involve us a little?

It'd be like "We spoke, they listened, they developed, they delivered!" The story of the community that could.

Edited by GizmoGecko, 06 August 2013 - 04:53 AM.

[SgtMagor]

the power of Crab, maybe Alex can give us a heads up on these mechs! is this just a pipe dream, or are the Crabs going to make an appearance, hopefully A.S.A.P. thx...

Edited by SgtMagor, 06 August 2013 - 04:58 AM.

[Herodes]

That sketch is so awesome ... it unites the old feeling of the crabs with the modern and up-to-snuff touch of the MWO style of Mechs. Pure genius.

Now give us crabs !!!

[Chavette]

Anything that has the name KING in it means it was built for me from the start.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Tough question. I'd like to see every mech in the game, its just that I think the king crab should be the end of the list. Primarily because it breaks too many in game rules and would require new tech to implement.
If you remove the lower arm/hand actuators then you have given the mech 4 free critical slots.
If you allow split section weapons you have fundementally broken the game mechanics. Might as well allow double heat sinks in the legs or a PPC in the head.

I think it is just better to let this poorly thought out design rest in peace.

[Dukarriope]

There are far too many humanoid mechs, they are rapidly beginning to look the same - a Quickdraw is virtually indistuinguishable from a Victor at range and in silhouette, so something unusual such as the King Crab or Crab would significantly spice things up - even a Nightstar could do.

Clipping issues?? PGI has honestly got no excuse for that one - the Atlas clips its arm through the autocannon sling EVERY TIME.

[Ragnar Darkmane]

Bumped for crab justice!

[blacklp]

In all the other threads, the potential issues of split crits has been discussed ad nauseum. So for the sake of all who need a good slap in the head for lack of common sense...
No split crit weapons at this time. If the KC was to introduced it would be like all the other AC20 arm mounted mechs.
Furthermore, the more battletech inclined amongst us have added that in TT (where all the rules com from) the KC acted as if it did not have lower actuators. Like all the other AC20 arm mechs in the game.
In summation, no split crits, no lower arm actuators, every other mech, no game breaking, no rule changing, no new tech, mech would work fine.

Edited by blacklp, 09 August 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 06 August 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

Tough question. I'd like to see every mech in the game, its just that I think the king crab should be the end of the list. Primarily because it breaks too many in game rules and would require new tech to implement.
If you remove the lower arm/hand actuators then you have given the mech 4 free critical slots.
If you allow split section weapons you have fundementally broken the game mechanics. Might as well allow double heat sinks in the legs or a PPC in the head.

I think it is just better to let this poorly thought out design rest in peace.

Naw Agent, that has been thoroughly vetted.

in TT the arc of fire on split crits limited the range to the most restricted location. So the KGC acts as if it has no lower arm or hand actuators in actual game mechanics, ANYHOW.

Since the hands ONLY acted as shields for the "delicate AC workings" anyhow, the need for hand actuators is technically moot. Does the Catapult need hand and lower arm actuators to have armored flaps protecting it's launchers? Then why does the KGC need them to do the same for it's ACs?

So instead of trying to add new rules following a mechanic that in the case of the KGC literally added NOTHING in TT anyhow (just poor planning), simply have it follow the same rules as the Victor or YLW, with the AC/20 arm, with no lower arm and hand actuators. Then add the "Claw" as a protective cover that opens and closes, like the Catapult.

[Herodes]

Yes. This. No more excuses. We need them Crabs. Now.