51 replies to this topic

[Shazarad]

Why are you all arguing the real life mechanics of a gauss rifle? Its science FICTION for a reason.

Maybe while you're all being the top physicists you can reliably explain how myomer muscles work too.

Take it at face value for what it is and enjoy the game.

[Tombstoner]

Product9, on 01 August 2013 - 08:33 AM, said:

I can't really speak to that since we didn't cover super-conductivity in electronics school.

Apart from exotic materials, however, isn't the only way to achieve super-conductivity through super-cooling? I don't know about all the BT technologies, but I do know that cooling something takes energy (and produces waste heat, just look at a refrigerator), not to mention the energy required to accelerate the 250 pound projectile using only electromagnetism (did I mention that coil guns are dreadfully inefficient by nature, hence why they aren't used for much outside of hobby projects?).

I am enjoying all these different points of view

yea super cooling is needed for conventional copper systems but room temperature super conductors that dont need cooling are being worked on. its presumed that BT science solved that issue but was bomb out and lost during the first succession war then later recovered by the gray death legion.

[Tombstoner]

Shazarad, on 01 August 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Why are you all arguing the real life mechanics of a gauss rifle? Its science FICTION for a reason.

Maybe while you're all being the top physicists you can reliably explain how myomer muscles work too.

Take it at face value for what it is and enjoy the game.

cause its fun. and myomer twist like liquid crystals the length shortens as voltage is applied.
or this explanation http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Myomer

also star trek communicators where science fiction but are real life products today ..... cell phones. computer also come to mind as is quantum computing.

BTW some of us are scientists goofing off at work.

[Khobai]

Gauss doesn't generate heat because there would be no reason to use it if it did. It would just be a way worse erppc that weighs more and takes up more crit slots and uses ammo.

[CHH Badkarma]

its good to see lore being explored in regards to the tech of our favorite weapons systems. Always good to give the ol noggin a work out and bicker just for the fun of it. Now, if we could just figure out way they made it go "pew" for the sound instead of something more of a very loud ear drum shattering "crack"

[Lootee]

Product9, on 01 August 2013 - 08:26 AM, said:

I don't understand why it would have a minimum range though. If you're propelling a hunk of metal at speeds exceeding the speed of sound, wouldn't it be most deadly the moment it exists the barrel?

Because the minimum range for different weapons means different things.

Keep in mind in TT the minimum range is a penalty to hit, not damage. If you manage to hit within the minimum range your weapon does full damage in TT.

LRMs have a minimum range because of the ballistic trajectory of the missiles in flight. To hit something 100 meters in front of you, you have to shoot the missiles almost straight up in the air and have them come down right in front of you.

PPCs have a minimum range because of the field inhibitor to prevent the feedback from damaging the firing mech if the target is too close.

Gauss Rifles because they weigh 15 fricking tons and track very slowly.

[NRP]

Lexx, on 01 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think the better question should be why doesn't gauss have a minimum range?

Gauss should have a minimum range of 60 meters. I think it should also have a slower fire rate than it does now, since you have to charge a bank of capacitors up to massive power levels to fire it. That's the reason gauss can explode when hit since all that stored energy gets released if the capacitors take too much damage. Capacitors don't charge instantly, so I think the cooldown on gauss rifles should be increased to 6 or even 8 seconds.

Are you f'ing serious? It fires a physical projectile! Why exactly do you think a physical projectile should have a minimum range? Christ, I think some of you people were asleep in science class.

[Psikez]

I'm sure ya'll figure it out by 2590

[DarkDevilDancer]

It's simple they fire cool because when written into lore it was a fictional weapons technology, for the same reason fusion engines exploded because the writers did not know how it worked differentially from nuclear power.

No internet in the 80s made it much harder to find such information.

[Bishop Steiner]

Product9, on 01 August 2013 - 07:31 AM, said:

Current is determined by resistance as shown in the equation I = V/R (aka Ohm's Law). So, you can have a very high voltage, and a very low current if the load resistance is high, or a very high current if the load resistance is very low.

Power, expressed in Watts (W) is determined by multiplying Voltage and Current.



The first railgun was patented in 1922. Coilguns may date back to the 30s.

Still, the rules for BT get revised, right? I just want to know the logic behind the decision.


When I was in college some classmates built a coilgun for their senior project, so I'm pretty well versed in how they work.

Certainly, but in the 80s and early 90s we didn't have this thing called the internet to get instant learning on things, and much print text was unreliable, to say the least.

As for updates, short of re-inventing the wheel, if they were to update everything they blue skied, they would have to re-invent the whole game, and risk losing their existing fanbase.

A modern 60 ton tanks has a 120mm gun that weighs about a ton with all it's bells and whistles.

Battletech has 50 cal machine guns that weigh half a ton.

Go figure.

[CG Oglethorpe Kerensky]

When using Rails or Blasters, it is common to overheat your guns when you need to break through an enemy's tank or otherwise take down your target quickly.

Make sure you train at least 4 levels of Thermodynamics to keep the heat damage to a minimum and keep a supply of nanite repair paste around to fix the damage when things cool off.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Shazarad, on 01 August 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Why are you all arguing the real life mechanics of a gauss rifle? Its science FICTION for a reason.

Maybe while you're all being the top physicists you can reliably explain how myomer muscles work too.

Take it at face value for what it is and enjoy the game.

Actually they already have fibers that contract when heat or an electrical charge is passed through the fibers so Myomer muscles is a scientific fact and will eventually exist pretty much just like they do in Battletech eventually. In fact they are looking to start using them for cybernetic limbs once perfected.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Lexx, on 01 August 2013 - 08:12 AM, said:

I think the better question should be why doesn't gauss have a minimum range?

Gauss should have a minimum range of 60 meters. I think it should also have a slower fire rate than it does now, since you have to charge a bank of capacitors up to massive power levels to fire it. That's the reason gauss can explode when hit since all that stored energy gets released if the capacitors take too much damage. Capacitors don't charge instantly, so I think the cooldown on gauss rifles should be increased to 6 or even 8 seconds.

We are talking the science behind the technology here and that being the case a projectile launched from a Gauss rifle would reach maximum muzzle velocity the moment it exited the muzzle. Since it is at its fastest the moment it leaves the muzzle, it is pretty obvious that it has no minimum range.

If anything should have minimum range it should be ACs. Nothing worse than a high explosive shell blowing up in the muzzle of the gun which is why more ammo with explosive warheads have delayed arming fuses so that they can clear the muzzle before they arm.

PanchoTortilla, on 01 August 2013 - 02:25 PM, said:

LRMs have a minimum range because of the ballistic trajectory of the missiles in flight. To hit something 100 meters in front of you, you have to shoot the missiles almost straight up in the air and have them come down right in front of you.

Wrong, they have minium range for the reason I mentioned above, to inhibit the missile from exploding prematurely and since the missile is intended to be fired at long range, the delay is seen as acceptable. SRMs should have it as well but I am guessing since SRMs are short ranged, like ACs, they decided to forgo safety for convinence.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 01 August 2013 - 04:56 PM.

[Fred013]

You guys lost me at

PanzerFurrry, on 01 August 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

[Tennex]

the gauss rifle is a very ineffective method of using electromagnetism.

to get a gauss rifle to have the effect that it does in MWO. it would require many many coils. or very powerful forces going through these coils.

which would require immense amount of energy. and since the method is so inefficient, one might assume that massive amounts of that energy is lost as heat.


which would heat up the mech.

nevermind gauss rifle generating no heat, it should generate tons of heat.

Edited by Tennex, 01 August 2013 - 05:04 PM.

[Lootee]

Viktor Drake, on 01 August 2013 - 04:52 PM, said:

Wrong, they have minium range for the reason I mentioned above, to inhibit the missile from exploding prematurely and since the missile is intended to be fired at long range, the delay is seen as acceptable.

Write a letter to Catalyst Game Labs and tell them their Classic BattleTech TechManual is wrong then.

Because on page 229 this is exactly what it says about Long-Range Missiles:

Developed for reach, rather than punch, long-range missile racks are capable of indirect fire and a more concentrated dispersal of warheads. LRMs are typically mounted and launched in five-tube groups, with up to 20 tubes in a single rack, though Clan ProtoMechs may pack smaller sets. Standard LRM launchers are quite versatile, and can be easily upgraded with Artemis IV systems and even make use of a variety of special munitions. Inner Sphere launchers, which derive their impressive range from a ballistic launch angle, are notoriously less accurate close-in, especially when compared to their smaller and more compact Clan rivals.

Edited by PanchoTortilla, 01 August 2013 - 05:22 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tennex, on 01 August 2013 - 05:03 PM, said:

the gauss rifle is a very ineffective method of using electromagnetism.

to get a gauss rifle to have the effect that it does in MWO. it would require many many coils. or very powerful forces going through these coils.

which would require immense amount of energy. and since the method is so inefficient, one might assume that massive amounts of that energy is lost as heat.


which would heat up the mech.

nevermind gauss rifle generating no heat, it should generate tons of heat.

plus have you seen the plasma cloud generated by the navy test rail guns?

Coil guns are less powerful, but to be effective would end up with a similar reaction, and the heat from that plasma has to go somewhere.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 01 August 2013 - 07:11 PM.

[Shadey99]

Product9, on 01 August 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

Also, I was basing the 250 pounds per projectile on the stats that say 8 shots per ton.  A ton is 2000 lbs (at least here in the 'States), and if you divide that by 8 you get 250.  I'm pretty sure I can do a simple division correctly!  Right...?  So, I think it's safe to say that each shot weighs 250 lbs.  As for the muzzle velocity, that I can only guess at.  Maybe I'll time it sometime.

Your forgetting the mechanism that moves the ammo from wherever it is, to the gun itself... Some sort of loader is required and I'd assume part of the weight for such comes with the ammo. A 250 lb projectile is kind of silly for this type of item.

Edited by Shadey99, 01 August 2013 - 07:24 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Well best I can do:

[Curccu]

Product9, on 01 August 2013 - 07:14 AM, said:

So, maybe the capacitors discharging doesn't tax the reactor because they have already been charged up slowly during the several seconds between shots? If that's the case, then why not do that with lasers, too?

Would you like all of your lasers to blow up with same damage as GR? I prefer them hot and less suicidal.