37 replies to this topic

[Alaskan Nobody]

Sorry for necro (this would be necro right? haven't really been in forums other than this one...)

But anyone else find it interesting that the first several suggestions to stay away from mediums came from steiner pilots?

[Koniving]

Tinside, on 01 August 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Hey guys, sorry about having a newbie asking the more basic questions, but the community seem helpful here so I was wondering if I could get some help with the more abstract questions of what Mech would suit me for my first buy.

What I'd want from my mech

• Good survivability (Perhaps even ECM, I haaate LRM boats)
  
• Armaments focused on the medium range direct damage, staying away from brawling and LRM
  
• Decent heat efficiency should I find myself one on one
  
• The Yen-Lo-Wang as what I thought it would be rather than the fragile nature of it. I quite like the ballistics.

If its any help at all here's what Ive found from my gaming so far:

I'm finding the BJ-1X to be a great trial mech, the ability to fire 4 lazers on a distracted enemy is great and helps me get some damage up rather than just rely on being an Atlas to blast away. So I'm looking towards a strong Energy or Ballistic mech that can unload on a weakspot pretty well. Of my rare kills I tend to be better at taking out Heavy Mechs that are distracted or otherwise 200-400m distances. So although i certainly dont have the skills for brawling yet, Im a decent shot and can pick a fight well.

Overall, I'm looking at a support role non-lrm. Also, feel free to point me in the direction of a Heavy, the reason I never opted for heavies was simply because I didnt like what I'd seen, whereas the Centurion, Hunchback and Blackjack all appealed to me.

I'll have to run with you at some point. But the last two people I helped out had these choices.

The first one liked to get in close and do lots of damage. We went through the options, and he chose a Hunchback. He liked the Hunch. So I gave him one of my two builds. 3 Small Lasers, 2 MGs, 1 AC/20. Lots of punch, the lasers and MGs work very well against fast targets. He loved it. He now has 4 Hunchbacks. Still says the 4G is the best.

It's very important that if you use the Hunchback, your armor is allocated Right Torso in this way. "46 front, 2 rear." Say it again. 46 front, 2 rear. This is because your entire hunch, on all sides, counts as Right Torso front. I also gave him advice on how to use it. Bob and weave between buildings and friendly mechs. Never go out in the open. Never rush from the front. If you're undetected, stay that way until you're right next to them. If there's no buildings, your local assault mechs make great buildings to soak up damage in your place. Most important from Murphy's laws of mechanized combat: "Try to look unimportant. The enemy may be running low on ammo."

Recent vids of Hunchback 4G.

by Lordred following me. We get told of a 6 PPC stalker. I make it my mission to assassinate the Stalker, as undetected as possible.

4G in its native territory.

4G with triple AC/2s + XL engine, wastes most of ammo demonstrating a ninja heat penalty on AC/2s and still racks in lots of damage. (Wasn't very happy so apologies for the griping.)

The Centurion 9-A was chosen by the second person (the first one's older sister). We ran through several builds, finding it difficult to find the perfect thing. Despite the high DPS she felt the AC/2s were too weak, the AC/10 too slow. Eventually she went MG, 2 MPL, and 2 SRM-6s. Later that changed to 3 SRM-4s because they reloaded faster and didn't spread as much. She now has her third Centurion, and likes the CN9-D the most (it can carry a Gauss + MG + lasers + SRMs or 2 MGs, lasers, SRMs and go really fast).

I haven't run a Centurion in quite a while aside from the Wang. As such not much recent footage. However I do have this by 7NationArmy, in which I was leading a group of Stock Centurion CN9-Ds through several matches, where we just rolled through the enemies even after our teams were devastated, racking in victory after victory.

I'm also the Cicada at the end.

On the Blackjack front, I have this for you as the second of my four BJs to finally evolve from Stock (I run them for at least 8 thousand XP stock before I change them out to get a feel for what their default purpose is).


For the BJ1-X, while I don't have any video... this was mine with minor changes.

Koniving, on 25 May 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

Of that last dump, these were me.

Spoiler

Edited by Koniving, 07 August 2013 - 03:24 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

The Centurion are the only Medium I have much (read- any) experience piloting, and they are all quite flexible, in many ways.

The Centurion A, has been the zombie king since day 1 - and there are a multitude of guides on how to build one
The Centurion AL, is the Centurion families redheaded stepchild, giving up the ballistics for 2 more energy in the arm
The Centurion D, is a fast raider or second-hand A, I run mine with a single UAC5 in the arm, and use my speed to stay out of trouble when it jams
The Yen-lo-wang, is like the D a raider, and faster since they boosted the engine cap - generally runs with a Gauss, 2 UAC5, or the default AC20 (how I run mine)


I keep the LRM in all my Centurion (except Yenlo of course ) because I like having the option for indirect fire support - lotta matches where I do not have line of sight on a skirmish, but I can still contribute

(I will admit though, once - and only once, got a teamkill that way due to a team mate stepping into the flight path... )

Edit: clarification on the TK

Edited by Shar Wolf, 07 August 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[WANTED]

I love the Yen Lo Wang. Run default pretty much( AC20 w 2 MDL )with speed tweak and 4 module slots. I kill alot with that AC20. I also lob AC20 rounds in the 400m range. It won't do much damage but the effect of the hit scares anyone I hit with it into cover.

Centurions are all very hardy medium mechs when using standard engines. Like someone said their hitboxes are borked or something cause I last a lot longer than I should in one of those compared to other mechs.

I'd recommend the Cents due to their survivability cause you can make mistakes and live to tell about unlike other mediums.

[Alaskan Nobody]

WANTED, on 07 August 2013 - 03:39 PM, said:

Like someone said their hitboxes are borked or something

To my knowledge (which is actually minimal) this has more to do with how damage transfers from destroyed parts than the hitboxes being borked.

IE - they keep hitting the destroyed side torso instead of the center - and a portion of the dmg from the shot gets transfered to the CT.

[Jay Z]

I recommend the Cicadas. Fastest mediums around (basically lights) and have quite a few direct fire options. Their torso twist speed and stability at speed make them great firing platforms. Use armlock for steadier aim.

CDA-3C

CDA-3M
CDA-3M

[Xeno Phalcon]

Personally iv always been a fan of the Hunchback and Centurion, cent was my primary ride back in closed beta in fact. That aside, my current mech of choice is the BJ-1 Blackjack - not only does it fair well in different combat situations (depending on loadout it can be a sniper, brawler or fire support very well) but holds the edge of jump jets and high mounted weapons over the HB and CN9 (while not being as durable as the CN9 but being harder to gib then the HB)

Note however that iv mastered mine, the blackjacks are one of those mechs that REALLY benefit from having their elite tree filled and the double basics.

[Gremlich Johns]

Every medium has its adherents. I loathe the cicada, but there are some devils piloting them. My fav? the HBK-4G(F) with AC20 and 3xMLas. MGs are useless with small lasers, go for the 15 pts of damage instead.

one match got me 800 damage and high score of the match for either side, too bad my team lost.

[YueFei]

Allocating armor 46 front and 2 rear on a Hunchback's hunch still means your hunch gets two-shotted by the current FOTM of 2PPC+Gauss. It's 35 damage, and 46 front + 24 internals is 70 hitpoints, only 2 shots.

Trying to use the arms to block shots is not very effective because the upper arms are skinny, and the shoulder is still exposed.

BTW, I've found that some astute players can still core you out from in front or behind even if you are twisted away, because they aim for your crotch. A Hunchback's arms actually *can* be used to block that shot, by twisting to the side and looking down.... while the upper arms are skinny, the lower arms are large and boxy, and you can block and protect your crotch area and avoid being cored if you are running at any angle besides perpendicular to the enemy's fire.

[Shifty Eyes]

I've had a HBK-4SP for quite a while now and it's one of the few mechs I score consistently well with. It lacks the titular "hmp" for people to shoot off, and you can easily max the engine without going XL while packing 2x SRM6, 5x MLAS.

It's very short ranged, and the best thing to do is stick with a group or a heavy/assault and be a wing-man. You can face tank a little bit when needed (barring crazy alphas).

I guess this mech has probably fallen out of favor with most people since heat scaling. I still enjoy using it, though.

[Bront]

Shifty Eyes, on 12 August 2013 - 11:11 AM, said:

I've had a HBK-4SP for quite a while now and it's one of the few mechs I score consistently well with. It lacks the titular "hmp" for people to shoot off, and you can easily max the engine without going XL while packing 2x SRM6, 5x MLAS.

It's very short ranged, and the best thing to do is stick with a group or a heavy/assault and be a wing-man. You can face tank a little bit when needed (barring crazy alphas).

I guess this mech has probably fallen out of favor with most people since heat scaling. I still enjoy using it, though.

2 SRM6s and 5 MLs shouldn't have heat scaling issues though. It's the lack of PPCs/Balistics that keep folks away (sadly, that loadout sounds fun). That, and Hunchies are torso based mechs, and lots of people enjoy the fun of arm weapons.

[Fiest]

YueFei, on 07 August 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

Allocating armor 46 front and 2 rear on a Hunchback's hunch still means your hunch gets two-shotted by the current FOTM of 2PPC+Gauss. It's 35 damage, and 46 front + 24 internals is 70 hitpoints, only 2 shots.

Trying to use the arms to block shots is not very effective because the upper arms are skinny, and the shoulder is still exposed.

BTW, I've found that some astute players can still core you out from in front or behind even if you are twisted away, because they aim for your crotch. A Hunchback's arms actually *can* be used to block that shot, by twisting to the side and looking down.... while the upper arms are skinny, the lower arms are large and boxy, and you can block and protect your crotch area and avoid being cored if you are running at any angle besides perpendicular to the enemy's fire.

Quoted As Broadly Useless. Its doesn't help the op who has already set his sights on a medium or the unreliable weight matching so your medium is paired to a medium. It does point out the problem's within the limited scope of meta decision-making that mediums have a hard time til there's a real drawback to higher tonnages or ranges drop


As for the torso mount on a hunchie - it's so high up that you can ridge peek almost as well as a jumpjetter. All mediums have a pretty serious drawback.

The cent's problem is the lack of a high mount but is usually built for close range so it negated. It does end up pretty 1-dimensional since few go for decent range
The hunch has a hunch which gets damaged fast but (overall) is no more vulnerable than any other standard engine.
The blackjack has big love handles and an awkward tonnage but has lovely multiple arm mounts so which it generally keeps til it dies or loses a side torso,
The cicada has a massive center torso but high speeds from bigger engines
The trebuchet is a either a giant commando (takes torso shots like a champ and dies quick) or a dwarf atlas (shoots happily with the arms blocking the side torso's quite handily at higher speeds)

You can work around most of the issues with mediums (aside from the hunchback-4J. That thing is borked until high missile mounts are useful)
I'd say the treb has the most alround flexibility with a good choice of ballistics, missile, energy, jumpjets, large engines and a decent hardpoint spread but the 'competitive' sections would suggest cicada -3m or centurion-a

[YueFei]

Fiest, on 15 August 2013 - 02:50 PM, said:

Quoted As Broadly Useless. Its doesn't help the op who has already set his sights on a medium or the unreliable weight matching so your medium is paired to a medium. It does point out the problem's within the limited scope of meta decision-making that mediums have a hard time til there's a real drawback to higher tonnages or ranges drop

My post contained information on Hunchback hitboxes which may help to influence his decision, as well as pointing out how a suggested armor allocation for front/back side torsos still leaves you vulnerable to having that side torso two-shotted. And some advice on protecting the center torso hitbox by using the Hunchback's arms. The OP asked for information and I provided some non-obvious information that I've never seen anyone else offer, on the chassis that I have spent the most time in. It's up to him to decide whether he wants a Hunchback or a different medium mech.

[Victor Morson]

Tinside, on 01 August 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

What I'd want from my mech

• Good survivability (Perhaps even ECM, I haaate LRM boats)
  
• Armaments focused on the medium range direct damage, staying away from brawling and LRM
  
• Decent heat efficiency should I find myself one on one
  
• The Yen-Lo-Wang as what I thought it would be rather than the fragile nature of it. I quite like the ballistics.

You want a Centurion. In particular the 9A and 9D. The Trebuchet 7M and 3C are alright backup 'mechs but those are the only two mediums worthwhile for combat (the Cicada is great, but it's a scout.)

Good Survivability: [X] - The Centurion 9A is one of the most durable 'mechs in the game. Always use a standard engine on the 9A if possible, with the 9D being the XL high speed option.

Medium Range [ ] - It doesn't do medium range well because nothing does medium range well right now. The best guns are snipers and infighters, hands down. There will be people here that will argue that, but all of the top players agree on this point. However if you run 3x SRM6 on the 9A with 2 ML/SPL in the CT, you have a beast of a 'mech that can cause massive damage and is next to indestructible.

Heat Efficiency [X] - It's a very manageable loadout. A single Coolant 9 by 9 will allow you to kill more than two 'mechs before dealing with heat problems!

Long story short is the 9A, while not ballistic, packs one of the most brutal punches in the game. It's a real top notch medium you should own. Notably the 9D can be run as a 2x LRM15 + 1x TAG 'mech, too, making it one of the highest speed and effective LRM "raiders" in the game, if you want to shake it up in casual matches.

PS: If you want a heavy, pick up some Cataphracts. The 3D has a reputation as being one of the best 'mechs, because it is. It has enough energy and ballistics to fill all kinds of roles, including the infamously awesome 1 Gauss, 2 ER PPC build that works well at all ranges. Plus it can jump. Really noone should be without a Cataphract and Centurion. They're both stellar options you can't go wrong with.

EDIT: Also perhaps you care and perhaps you do not OP, but a lot of players will suggest to you bad 'mechs/loadouts that look/sound cool. I'm trying to suggest the stuff that the top players use, and really is a cut above. In other words, these designs are common in upper brackets and not really just personal favorites or anything. They're very, very solid setups you can tweak a little to suit your taste (a favorite being adding lasers to the 3D setup.)

Edited by Victor Morson, 16 August 2013 - 06:21 AM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Victor Morson, on 16 August 2013 - 06:18 AM, said:

EDIT: Also perhaps you care and perhaps you do not OP, but a lot of players will suggest to you bad 'mechs/loadouts that look/sound cool. I'm trying to suggest the stuff that the top players use, and really is a cut above. In other words, these designs are common in upper brackets and not really just personal favorites or anything. They're very, very solid setups you can tweak a little to suit your taste (a favorite being adding lasers to the 3D setup.)

Your assumptions aside, the OP hasnt been to the forums at least sense the 7th so dunno if/when your gonna get a response from that guy.

Edited by Xeno Phalcon, 16 August 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[Mechteric]

If you're just looking for a fun fast medium, the BJ-1X with 8 medium lasers and an XL 295 is spectacular

[Dazzer]

you cant go wrong with a Hunchback or a Centurion

[Voivode]

Here's a breakdown of the currently available mediums. I'm going to leave the Kintaro off the list because I've never piloted one.

Cicada: Can move as fast as a light. Only medium with an ECM variant. Decent armor and firepower, but bigger than a light so easier to hit. Mix of ballistic/laser hardpoint on variants. Hero (X5) only one with missile hardpoints.

Blackjack:Small, but not especially durable. Can carry a powerful payload for 45 tons. Some variants have JJ, one can go 116KPH, other variants are a bit slow. Two are a mix of ballistic/energy, the other two are nothing but energy.

Centurion:Most durable of all lights. Good zombie (fight with no arms) and the best close range fighter of all mediums. All variants are a mix of all three hardpoint types. Decent speed can be achieved with a standard engine.

Hunchback:Ambush and fire support mech. Can carry heavy payload for tonnage, but stores almost all of it in the hunch. Easy to disarm, so don't be up front. Speed is ok, not incredible on speed, armor is decent but your hunch WILL be targeted. 4SP variant has no hunch and a smaller, but more symmetrical payload that doesn't feature any ballistic slots. The different variants carry a different mix of hardpoints.

Trebuchet: Not as tough as the Centurion, but fairly tough for its tonnage. It carries less of a payload but it is not as easily disarmed as the Hunchback. Can perform well as an LRM platform in most variants. Highly mobile. All variants a mix of energy and missile hardpoints, the 7K variant adds two ballistic hardpoints.


That's the basic info about them. I have piloted at least three of every chassis and I've sold off all but 2Cicadas (2A and 3M), 2 Blackjacks (1 and 1X) and one centurion (9A)

Edited by Voivode, 16 August 2013 - 08:40 AM.