44 replies to this topic

[Will9761]

Wieland, on 06 August 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

So, if i get that right our beloved unseen are only in the original series? Not in a Macross Movie or in one of the newer series?

I ask because they say they only hold the rights to the original series.

Yep, a large majority of these iconic Unseen designs had originated from Macross during the 80's (though not all of them). Battletech did acquire the rights to use these designs, but Harmony had put a lawsuit on Battletech for the for doing it (hence why they are known as the "Unseen"). Keep in mind that Harmony Gold's Robotech franchise was also based on the Macross anime. They claim those designs as theirs, but they had nothing to do with creating them. The reason why we want these design back is because we grew up to love them. HG's apathy and negligence to release them despite their popularity, is a perfect reason why we should get these designs from their cold, dirty,gritty, ugly little hands.

Edited by Will9761, 06 August 2013 - 03:19 PM.

[Pht]

Wieland, on 06 August 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

So, if i get that right our beloved unseen are only in the original series? Not in a Macross Movie or in one of the newer series?

No. There are unseens that were in other anime series, I think dougram and some others i can't remember at the moment.

Basically, the court case with HG and Playmates toys were so expensive that fasa decided to cover their butts and removed ALL third party art from the BT universe.

Quote

I ask because they say they only hold the rights to the original series.

They don't hold the rights to the IP itself. Tatsunoko (who HG got their rights from) has been ruled to not have those rights in a court case in japan in the early 2000's. big west and studio nue hold the actual macross IP. Which means that BW/SN own the rights to the images. NOT tatsunoko and harmony gold.

The downside is that even if catalyst had the money and the documents to try and take a claim into court, they got their rights from twentieth century imports ... and TCI got their rights from ... tatsunoko.

so basically HG needs to have someone with deep pockets take them to court and slap the living crap out of them for trying to defend IP rights they don't have (image rights, no the rights to the original series); and than catalyst would have to go to big west/studio nue and negotiate with them for rights to use the images ... and possibly litigate in japan VS tatsunoko, if tatsu decided to challenge.

That's my take on this mess after having read the Fasa V. Playmates toys & HG/Playmates toys V. fasa court documents, and what tiny bit I could get out of the japanse court cases.

Edited by Pht, 06 August 2013 - 03:10 PM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Pht, on 06 August 2013 - 03:09 PM, said:

No. There are unseens that were in other anime series, I think dougram and some others i can't remember at the moment.

Basically, the court case with HG and Playmates toys were so expensive that fasa decided to cover their butts and removed ALL third party art from the BT universe.



They don't hold the rights to the IP itself. Tatsunoko (who HG got their rights from) has been ruled to not have those rights in a court case in japan in the early 2000's. big west and studio nue hold the actual macross IP. Which means that BW/SN own the rights to the images. NOT tatsunoko and harmony gold.

The downside is that even if catalyst had the money and the documents to try and take a claim into court, they got their rights from twentieth century imports ... and TCI got their rights from ... tatsunoko.

so basically HG needs to have someone with deep pockets take them to court and slap the living crap out of them for trying to defend IP rights they don't have (image rights, no the rights to the original series); and than catalyst would have to go to big west/studio nue and negotiate with them for rights to use the images ... and possibly litigate in japan VS tatsunoko, if tatsu decided to challenge.

That's my take on this mess after having read the Fasa V. Playmates toys & HG/Playmates toys V. fasa court documents, and what tiny bit I could get out of the japanse court cases.

TCI got their rights from Studio Nue since the model kits were sold in Japan and that is the province of Studio Nue's rights.

[Jack The Ripper]

I would, very much, like to see Harmony Gold be taken down in this case and every other from this point forward. A great many things I love have yet to see US shores because of them.

[Will9761]

Even a large majority of those mechs originated from Macross, once you look at the total amount of Unseens they have (excluding the LAM,IIC variants, and BattleDroid Mechs), there are 14 BattleMechs that came from them. As to where Dougram had 5 mechs and Crusher Joe had 1 mech.

Macross Unseens:

• Stinger
  
• Wasp
  
• Valkyrie
  
• Phoenix Hawk
  
• Crusader
  
• Ostsol
  
• Ostscout
  
• Ostroc
  
• Behemoth(Stone Rhino)
  
• Archer
  
• Marauder
  
• Warhammer
  
• Rifleman
  
• Longbow

Edited by Will9761, 07 August 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Will9761]

I'm eager to get these Unseen mech designs back, is there anyway we can help?

[Pht]

James The Fox Dixon, on 06 August 2013 - 04:10 PM, said:

TCI got their rights from Studio Nue since...

No, they did not.

From the court documents:

Quote

In or about 1984, defendant FASA created a fictional universe called "Battletech" which formed the basis for board games, role-playing games, novels, and game systems. The original "Battletech" game included both robotic images and model kits based on the Macross designs. FASA claims to have acquired the rights to these model kits and images from Twentieth Century Imports ("TCI"), which allegedly acquired them from Tatsunoko.

Emphasis added.

http://alex.kaempen....ld_v._fasa.html


... and TCI was selling the model kits in the U.S. Not in japan.

Edited by Pht, 08 August 2013 - 08:15 AM.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Pht, on 08 August 2013 - 08:14 AM, said:

No, they did not.

From the court documents:



Emphasis added.

http://alex.kaempen....ld_v._fasa.html


... and TCI was selling the model kits in the U.S. Not in japan.

TCI acquired their rights from Studio Nue since Tatsunoko could not license the designs to the kits made in Japan by the various Japanese manufacturers. Tatsunoko's agreement with Studio Nue/Big West stated that Tatsunoko had exclusive distribution of merchandise outside of Japan while Studio Nue/Big West held the rights for merchandise produced and sold inside of Japan. TCI was just an importer of existing modal kits produced and sold in Japan. TCI licensed these kits from Nitto, Takara, and other Japanese manufacturers that had the licenses from Studio Nue/Big West not Tatsunoko; in the case of Macross and Southern Cross.

http://frustratedpil...com/567179.html Post 2 explains all this, so Fasa's lawyers got it wrong on where TCI got their licensing from. Errors happen all the time in court filings.

Edited by James The Fox Dixon, 08 August 2013 - 08:40 AM.

[Tombstoner]

Given HG myopic use of the macros IP i think any sort of contract that could make money.... like MWO sould be considered....
seriously how valuable is the robotech IP. given its age when does it enter the public domain.

[Tombstoner]

did some google work and answered my own question....the amount of money that could be made from MWO i think is too small to be worth risking diluting the IP by letting something you have no creative control over posably damage the mech designs.

RT live action movie.... WTF

[Pht]

James The Fox Dixon, on 08 August 2013 - 08:39 AM, said:

TCI acquired their rights from Studio Nue

The offical court docs were sworn under oath, penalty of perjury, and with millions of 1990s dollars on the line, and are a known *original source.*

I'm not going to trust an unknown handle who is only self-attributed. Especially not in this case, where I've seen multiple supposedly first-hand knowledge sources making mutually-exclusive claims.

However, there's a way to solve this. The guy that ran TCI is still around on the net. Someone should email him and ask him.

[Deedsie]

I would absolutely love to see Harmony Gold dragged into oblivion by Hasbro. They are the reason we have not seen any Macross releases all this time, and I'd like to pilot a Marauder and Warhammer, dammit!

[Will9761]

It's also their fault for causing Mechwarrior 5 to crash and burn. While I'm thankful that PGI had revived it as MWO despite its current problems, Harmony Gold should have never turned its ugly little head.

That company needs to burn now, the sooner it falls the better we can get finally get our beloved Macross Unseens back.

[James The Fox Dixon]

Pht, on 09 August 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

The offical court docs were sworn under oath, penalty of perjury, and with millions of 1990s dollars on the line, and are a known *original source.*

I'm not going to trust an unknown handle who is only self-attributed. Especially not in this case, where I've seen multiple supposedly first-hand knowledge sources making mutually-exclusive claims.

However, there's a way to solve this. The guy that ran TCI is still around on the net. Someone should email him and ask him.

Not necessarily about the court documents. A person can claim anything in a motion and it is up to the judge/jury to determine the validity of their motion. When filing the motion there is no declaration to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. You only run into the problem of perjury when it comes to testifying.

It would be great to find out the truth, but the problem is in finding who exactly owned TCI and tracking them down.

[Pht]

James The Fox Dixon, on 18 August 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Not necessarily about the court documents. A person can claim anything in a motion and it is up to the judge/jury to determine the validity of their motion.

The judge nor any jury ever contested the point in a multi-year case costing millions of dollars, and IMO, it's ludicrous to say that any random poster on the internet has an equal authority.

Quote

It would be great to find out the truth, but the problem is in finding who exactly owned TCI and tracking them down.

I don't have the info on hand, but we know who owned TCI and I once saw that he has a new company, and I suspect an email address there.

I should have saved the page or at least bookmarked it.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I guess an 83 year old man (Agrama) has nothing better to do than continuously sue other companies for an IP he might not even full own the rights to.

I hope Hasbro's legal team kicks HG to the curb.

Owning almost all of the original BT source books and novels, the Unseen are the core of my childhood BT experience. It's time for this old codger to get his karmic payback.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 27 August 2013 - 08:58 AM.

[xengk]

What is the latest development on this court case?

I do hope Hasbro just up and acquire the rights. With that we might have a chance at a Battletech movie and toy line.
If Hasbro can drop money on Real Steel and Battleship movie adaptation, why not Battletech? To cash in on the giant robot trend stirred up by Pacific Rim.

[Adridos]

xengk, on 29 August 2013 - 02:42 AM, said:

I do hope Hasbro just up and acquire the rights. With that we might have a chance at a Battletech movie and toy line. If Hasbro can drop money on Real Steel and Battleship movie adaptation, why not Battletech? To cash in on the giant robot trend stirred up by Pacific Rim.

You've got it mixed up.

Harmony Gold holds no rights to Battletech, they just own the rights to distribute those Japanese designs outside Japan. If Hasbro rolls over HG and acquires the rights, all they can do with it is finally allow Macross toys, anime and games into the outside world.

[Colddawg]

all i hear from HG is "we need money"

How did MekTek get around all this legal BS to be able to release the Unseen in their packs?

Edited by Colddawg, 29 August 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Adridos]

Colddawg, on 29 August 2013 - 10:56 AM, said:

How did MekTek get around all this legal BS to be able to release the Unseen in their packs?

The guy who did it said it was simply a matter of asking them and getting allowed on the premise of being non-commercial. Probably the same happened with Wandering Samurai and MW:LL.