34 replies to this topic

[C12AZyED]

Machine Guns, while massively better than they used to be (remember the days of 0.04 damage a bullet lol), still need a small buff to put them in line as a serious weapon.

Currently the Spider 5K, Dragon 5N and Jaegermech DD ( the Cicada 3C is just plain useless) are the only Mechs that can make proper use of the Machine Gun, with the Spider 5K being the only one that can perform reasonably well as she has 4 arm mounts which is good for circle strafing while maintaining fire.

From many hours of gameplay using Machine Guns, it has become clear that the intrinsic nature of having to maintain fire on a target with this weapon is a significant disadvantage, as one is denied the benefits of torso twisting lest they hamper their DPS output. It is largely for this reason that the Small Laser still holds its superiority over the Machine Gun as it is able to focus damage very quickly, and then allow the mech to turn away.

Due to this, the Machine Gun should be given a DPS output that is actually slightly higher than the Small Laser to account for the increased risk in using it.



My proposal is that damage should increase from 0.1 damage a bullet to 0.125, this will result in a 25% increase in DPS at 1.25 damage a second, putting it slightly higher than a Small Laser.

Edited by C12AZyED, 04 August 2013 - 03:02 AM.

[SubRyan]

It should be 0.15 per bullet, and MG fire rate should be fixed as well

[KAT Ayanami]

No. Period.

The MG is a "cheap" weapon to beging with.

It has low damage, but if a MG carrier finds you with no armor, you are dead in seconds. There is no point on increasing the damage since it works on crits anyways.

Btw, MGs are small weapons. So there is no point on making them stronger. Not everything can kill or should kill as a LL or PPC.

[Marmon Rzohr]

Honestly, it's hard to tell. On the one hand, MGs aren't supposed to kick ***, but on the other hand powerful MGs might make light mechs with balistic slots more viable.

Due to the large average weight of balistics, the only mechs that can resonably get away with mounting them are heavy mediums (and that's if the go for just one) or heavy mechs.

This kinda makes lights and small mediums with balistics pointless.
Making MGs more powerful but less crit-happy might change this (at least a bit), so it might be worth some testing.

[Alistair Winter]

Since several mechs have MGs as their main armament, or part of their main armament, the MG should not be considered a support weapon that relies on crits. A mech with 4 tons of MGs + ammo should be as effective as a mech with 4 tons of small lasers. Granted, MGs have less heat, but they also require that you stay on target all the time, instead of dodging, torso twisting and picking alpha strikes, as with small lasers.

So yes.

[Lydialeera]

Machine guns will get a massive buff when engines are able to be critted, even if their stats don't change from where they are now.

[Coralld]

At the very least their damage needs to go up to 0.2 or even 0.25 and reduce the bullet spread.

[Gen Kumon]

Lydialeera, on 04 August 2013 - 07:03 AM, said:

Machine guns will get a massive buff when engines are able to be critted, even if their stats don't change from where they are now.

This. If engine and cockpit crits become killable and result in death, then the MG's fine at it's current damage. Big if, though. With the way things currently run, I could see upping the damage a nudge, though before that, I'd like to see the cone cut by at least 30%, if not 50%, and see how that works. May be all it needs. Oh, and the variable fire rate based on ping needs fixed as well.

[superteds]

stop trying to balance around crits ffs. it's a dumb mechanic, and it's needlessly gimping anything sub 60t which relies on B slots.

[General Taskeen]

KAT Ayanami, on 04 August 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

No. Period.

The MG is a "cheap" weapon to beging with.

Yes. Period.

Or shall the Small Laser be nerfed to MG levels? Same tonnage. IN BT they are practically the equivalent damage envelope and range.

Like seriously. Is anyone scared of Small Lasers that do 3x more damage in 10s than an MG? The answer is No. Nobody is scared of SL, because they do enough damage for their range and cool down.

MG's are supposed to be decent damage for 90m range, its the sole reason it weighs 0.5 tons with extreme short range, instead of long-range like an AC/2.

MG's have to have the cone of fire removed completely and the damage is buffed to say 0.2, then its ammunition should be dropped drastically OR they need a complete overhaul period. Those that are against a useful MG, are obviously against viability and variety, otherwise just take a PPC and Gauss, like seriously. My second theory is that people got their faces ruined by the more powerful, balanced, and competitive MG's of Mechwarrior 3 and 4 and thus want them to be useless in MWO.

Edited by General Taskeen, 04 August 2013 - 08:10 AM.

[Skydrive]

I'm ok with how MG's are right now, and I tend to use them on quite a few of my mechs, for instance, my Jagermech DD, and lets face it. Sometimes you can think that MG's are TOO good when they cause a chain reaction of ammo explosions, and you get well over 500 damage from piloting a Spider 5K (don't remember the exact number of damage, but it was ALOT for a mech armed with four Machine Guns and one Large... or ER Large Laser... don't recall if this was before or after I realized it was cool running enough for an ER, but do remember this was before MG's did one damage a second).
Do remember that MG's are not meant to be the most damaging thing in game, and saying that buffing them for a light to be viable for using them is just... well, lets just say that is treacherous ground right there, especially if you consider how much damage that would be with no heat in a map like Terra Therma.

[Leafia Barrett]

General Taskeen, on 04 August 2013 - 08:09 AM, said:

MG's have to have the cone of fire removed completely and the damage is buffed to say 0.2, then its ammunition should be dropped drastically OR they need a complete overhaul period.

Here's a thought regarding damage. Keep the damage per bullet the same, double the fire rate.

[Gaan Cathal]

KAT Ayanami, on 04 August 2013 - 04:25 AM, said:

Btw, MGs are small weapons. So there is no point on making them stronger. Not everything can kill or should kill as a LL or PPC.

C12AZyED, on 04 August 2013 - 02:33 AM, said:

My proposal is that damage should increase from 0.1 damage a bullet to 0.125, this will result in a 25% increase in DPS at 1.25 damage a second, putting it slightly higher than a Small Laser.

If you're going to try and be a smug git about slapping someone's idea down, read the OP. Small Laser DPS =/= LL/PPC damage. Get your head out of the "Assault should pwn all things" mindset, it's moronic when applied to an arena shooter.

[Hellcat420]

mg's do not need another buff.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

MGs are pretty good as-is. I'd not be averse to trying one final small damage boost, but I would be very careful to observe the results and, if necessary, to revert the damage back to what it is right now.

If PGI does decide to increase internal structure health (which would make critical hits more meaningful and extend the time it takes to down a mech), then MGs might well need the damage boost. As things are now, though, it's just something to test rather than something that I think actually needs to happen right now.

[PEEFsmash]

MGs are just fine. They do amazingly in many situations, and for such a light, filler weapon, that is good.

[Rippthrough]

They're okay, but anyone with a modicum of sense would take 4 small lasers over 4 machine guns. A touch more damage wouldn't go amiss.

[Unbound Inferno]

MGs are fine, leave them be before the devs have some bright idea to break them again.

[Corvus Antaka]

machine gun is just fine as it is.

[Royalewithcheese]

I still think that the idea that was floating around a couple of months ago where Machine Guns are ballistic Small Lasers that use ammo instead of heat and Machine Gun Arrays are ballistic Medium Lasers that use ammo and less heat is the way forward.